I'm wondering how most of you go about building muscle?

What I mean is, do you lean bulk from a good body fat percentage, or do you go all out and then spend a while cutting?

Personally I keep it lean and try to avoid adding too much fat. You gain muscle more easily at a healthy percentage and to be honest i'm vain so I don't want to go too far the other way. I just can't imagine doing it any other way right now. Cutting sounds absolutely dreadful, hunger is horrible and you're diet has to be far more strict.

I've been 'bulking' for pretty much a year and 3 months and my body fat has never really changed. I've only put on a little in that time and i've never really done any cardio since I started weights. I could possiby of put on more muscle if I munched more calories, but there's the chance I would of lost that little bit extra when cutting anyways, so what does it matter?

So what's your approach? I think health4ni is of a similar mind to me on this, although his BF is without a doubt lower than mine!

I love weightlifting.. and i love food. I know im limiting my gains by my diet, but i see training as a means to allow me to enjoy other aspects of life. Strength and Mass are my things, im not overly concerned with BF, though id like to lower it of course. I tend to eat a 'sensible' diet and go for high protein. I dont go mad on takeaways or sweet treats but i certainly dont deny myself them.

I'm at a point now where I'm reasonably happy with my overall size or outline. I guess I'd like to add a little more size to Legs, Triceps and a little less to Shoulders and Upper Back.

From here it's a case of dropping BF slowly and adding on a little more lean mass so my outline remains the same.

I lift heavy and eat everything I can. Making sure I get my basics in first then I eat more yes I get fat but I beleive I need to in order to gain the muscle I do.

I dont beleive in this lean bulk rubbish. Unless your a model or something theres no reason to stay that lean and only gain a few lbs a year

Thats good to hear Nrage, i think youve got an impressive physique and i like the idea of eating big and training big.. hope for me yet maybe

Everyone's opinion is biased to some degree. Mine is based on the fact that I want to be healthy. So I have no intention of adding lots of fat in a traditional old school bulking regime.

As soon as we are born our bodies are slowly dieing. Ok, apart from the obviousness of that statement, what I really mean is that in terms of our vascular system (veins, arteries, heart etc), scientists have observed degradation of infants vascular system! So imo it really is important to eat well. Eating clean is key. That makes it harder to add "size"; as in muscle & fat. Adding just muscle whilst eating clean is much harder. But you need to just eat & eat & eat. Doesn't mean you have to eat shit food though. I'm beginning to realise this as I've hit a sticking point. I added 2.5kgs over a 6month period from the end of last summer. I'm just starting a new nutritional programme that was recommended to me by a colleague I highly respect. Hopefully in a month or two I'll be a few kgs heavier

I just get on with it and dont think about it too much

I eat a decent diet and enough to keep me growing. a few lb of bodyfat might go on over time but i dont mind as long as i am in what i consider a healthy range 10 - 16% or thereabouts.

Dieting and worrying about not eating this or that is crap. I have a fast metabolism anyway so i can get away with a little more than most

nrage04 wrote:I lift heavy and eat everything I can. Making sure I get my basics in first then I eat more yes I get fat but I beleive I need to in order to gain the muscle I do.

I dont beleive in this lean bulk rubbish. Unless your a model or something theres no reason to stay that lean and only gain a few lbs a year

Easy to say that when you're using gear though.

For us naturals once we've built a certain amount of muscle it's pointless eating lots of calories because it nearly all ends up as fat, trust me I've just found out the hard way! I've never had any fat on me all my life but last year went on a bit of a psycho bulk... yes I looked fuckin huge with a shirt on and I was as strong as an ox at 16st 7lbs but the truth of the matter is I was a fat bastard in bodybuilding terms.

Now I'm paying for it, as I've been cutting for months and the fact I went all the way down to 14st 7lbs at my lowest speaks volumes about just how much fat I put on!

Lean bulking isn't rubbish for a natural who's pretty much at his genetic limit... it's called common sense It's also what I'm now doing. No more than 250kcals excess per day and some days I'll just drop 1000kcals to try and keep fat gain to an absolute minimum... lots of cardio from now on aswell. Cutting is bollocks, it's horrible watching all gains just fade away

Lean throughout life, for long term health...

The leaner you are, the lower your risk of cancer, that’s according to a new report published by the World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF).

In this study the researchers searched through half a million studies that took place since the 1960s, and selected the 7,000 most relevant. It was deemed the most authoritative and exhaustive review done thus far on the prevention of cancer through food, nutrition and physical activity.

The report included contributions from 21 of the world's most renowned scientists involved with cancer. One of the key findings was the link between a person’s body fat level and the development of cancer.

In this report, Panel Chair and lead author Professor Sir Michael Marmot, recommended that people should aim to be as lean as possible, within a healthy range, and to avoid weight gain throughout adulthood.

the average adult can expect to gain approximately 1 pound of fat every year between ages 30 to 60, and lose about a half pound of muscle over that same time span. That's a 15 pound loss of muscle and a 30 pound gain in fat!

Building muscle all the way along, remaining lean year round, although I'm not even there right now HA!

One question is though...what do people consider "lean" and is there a healthy % Range?

Can you be lean to the point that its unhealthy? I dont think that less than 8% makes a person look all that well. for me, i have to be more than that or my face goes all drawn-in and i look like a smack head!

THat's prob cuz of strange dieting strategies most people use.
Lean in the sense that you maximize your muscle gain, while maintaining a relatively low body fat. A calorie restricted diet is shown in research to enhance lifespan. The study, led by Dr Holloszy, Professor of Medicine, was published last year in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences and it’s very clear from these findings that calorie restriction has a powerful, protective effect against diseases associated with aging. While the scientists don’t know how long each person will end up living, the fact is, they will certainly have a much longer life expectancy than average because they’re most likely not going to die from the diseases that kill most people.

Additionally the ideal way to do this is via cardio (European Journal of Applied Physiology, 2007. ) Studies clearly show that moderate to intense exercise training (above 60% VO2max) increases the strength and efficiency of the heart that results in better cardiac performance.

What exactly do you mean by calorie restricted? I'm guessing you basically just mean maintenance?

The calorie restricted diets observed in studies involved a daily restriction of 25% of excess calories, these individuals were not necessarily weightlifters, but were not overweight by any means.
If we were to apply the same concept to weight lifters, we would be essentially increasing our basal metabolic rate (BMR) via weight training, and the extra muscle mass afforded by our efforts. Thus this calorie restriction need not be so suvere. For example, it may be just a 10% reduction in calories.

All you're saying is that fat people (or people who train) that are eating more than maintenance should reduce their intake by 25% or 10% for a longer life?

Of course they should!

I'll never let me bodyfat go beyond 16% or so, it's just not aesthetically pleasing and isn't really as healthy either.

I agree that it's best to stay lean. Unless you're intending to compete and are going to have to put in the effort to get to 3-5% bodyfat anyway, you might as well bulk gradually and hold on to your gains without the pain of dieting and losing mass. It's almost as though an all out bulk is a strategy that leads to 'deliberate' fat gain.

When I started training I was 63kg at about 8% bodyfat (runner) and I'm now 82kg at around 11% bodyfat. I've never really gone through a dedicated cutting cycle for more than 4 weeks since I started training around 3 years ago, although I have had periods where I've lost weight and haven't been able to train for various reasons. However that's 42lbs of gain in 3 years - pretty much bang on 14lbs a year - which considering I've only been training seriously for about 18-24 months is pretty good going.

The amusing thing is how little my weight has changed, but i've put on a decent bit of size and my strength has increased a lot.

I don't know exactly what I weighed when I started but it was probably around the 60KG mark, maybe a tiny bit lighter.

After a year and 3 months nearly of training i'm around 63-64KG at the moment and my bodyfat is probably around the 13% area.

Wardie wrote:The amusing thing is how little my weight has changed, but i've put on a decent bit of size and my strength has increased a lot.

I don't know exactly what I weighed when I started but it was probably around the 60KG mark, maybe a tiny bit lighter.

After a year and 3 months nearly of training i'm around 63-64KG at the moment and my bodyfat is probably around the 13% area.

You'll notice that 3-4kg a lot more at your weight than someone would at 90kg though mate, could explain it. What are your goals at the moment?

nrage04 wrote:I lift heavy and eat everything I can. Making sure I get my basics in first then I eat more yes I get fat but I beleive I need to in order to gain the muscle I do.

I dont beleive in this lean bulk rubbish. Unless your a model or something theres no reason to stay that lean and only gain a few lbs a year

LOL - Love it! though as other guys have said, when you're not using gear that isn't that practical if you want to look good all the time. Although the lean bulk lifestyle requires some serious dedication - and even Bison must agree that he slips and makes it all the harder for himself with the winegum binges. It's a fecking horrible state of affairs and if you miss any sleep due to cicumstances you're gonna struggle all the more.

For me, I'm just going Low-tech from here on in. Yeah I get fat quickly, so I'm eating minimal excess calories for growth whilst on the EPI. I can't afford every magic supp on the market so I'm just going with the basics there. And when I get some good size gains and feel I can afford to lose a few pounds without sacrificing any strength and not too much lean I'll go on a cut. It's tried and tested for decades.

Rab wrote:One question is though...what do people consider "lean" and is there a healthy % Range?

Healthy Lean = see your abs properly. That means under 10% body fat.

Healthy BF % range:
Men: <15% --> I think <10% is what every man should be though
Women: <20% --> I think <16% is what ever woman should be though

If asked I'll tell people this. Otherwise by broadcasting my opinion I'll get a lot of haters lol

health4ni wrote:

Rab wrote:One question is though...what do people consider "lean" and is there a healthy % Range?

Healthy Lean = see your abs properly. That means under 10% body fat.

Healthy BF % range:
Men: <15% --> I think <10% is what every man should be though
Women: <20% --> I think <16% is what ever woman should be though

If asked I'll tell people this. Otherwise by broadcasting my opinion I'll get a lot of haters lol

I have been <10% most of my life but it has always made me look Ill as i have quite a thin long face anyway. Ideal for me would be maybe a few% less than i am at the moment

what would you put my bf% at BTW?

skim through as theres progress pics. cheers

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=490

Rab wrote:what would you put my bf% at BTW?

tricky to answer for sure via pics. But I'd say somewhere between 10-14%.

I honestly don't think you are less than 10%. But you've made some great progress to be proud of for sure.

health4ni wrote:

Rab wrote:what would you put my bf% at BTW?

tricky to answer for sure via pics. But I'd say somewhere between 10-14%.

I honestly don't think you are less than 10%. But you've made some great progress to be proud of for sure.

sorry, to clarify what i meant...ive always been <10% all my life until the past year or two. I put myself at 14% at the minute with about 2% less being a healthy % for me imo

Would most strength athletes be classed as unhealthy?

Oh ok. lol

Yeah. Probably 14% is about right. tbh that's what I thought but didn't wanna hurt your feelings by being too far from 10% lol

never mind lol

Marks1972 wrote:Would most strength athletes be classed as unhealthy?

what, Olympic lifters etc? Well, why should they be exempt? Too much body fat puts you at a far greater risk of later life illnesses & diseases etc. So yeah I guess if they are male & > than say 16%ish