Thought I'd resurrect this subject for a discussion on the optimal Work Out Nutriton starting with Nitrogen sources.

I'm thinking either of these 2 methods could be favourable as a Nitrogen source base that can then be developed upon with inclusion of Carbs and other supplements:

PreWO: EAA's 15g
IntraWO: EAA's/BCAA's 15g
PostWO: 15g EAA's
PPWO (30 mins): WPC 50g

Or

PreWO: EAA's 15g
IntraWO: EAA's/BCAA's 15g
PostWO: HWP 50g

Funny you post this as im going to start taking bcaa during my workouts. Im interested in the results.

i think the question that needs asking is the amount of hydrolysis that the wph has gone through?
shoot me! but would it not be best taking both wph and eaa/bcaa at the same time to take advantage of both intestinal transporters at the same time?

50g wph seems a tad wasteful?

julesm wrote:shoot me! but would it not be best taking both wph and eaa/bcaa at the same time to take advantage of both intestinal transporters at the same time?

Now that really would taste like a dogs arse.

julesm wrote:i think the question that needs asking is the amount of hydrolysis that the wph has gone through?
shoot me! but would it not be best taking both wph and eaa/bcaa at the same time to take advantage of both intestinal transporters at the same time?

50g wph seems a tad wasteful?

This is my thinking behind EAA's PWO and WPC PPWO.

unsure of which way around- but i am sure that digestion of di and tri peps somehow has a knock on effect on free form amino acid transporters- (dont quote me on that) priming for want of a better word

By that theory HPW before EAA's PWO?

yes, or at the same time.

I hesitate at the same time as there would still be some Enzymatic action to break down to Tri, Di and Mono by which time Free Form's would already be absorbed although this would be less the better the HWP quality or %.

for some reason i am thinking the hwp would take priority over the aa's (gut feeling pardon the pun). from memory the percentage hydrolysis to get a truly shit hot WPH needs to be around the 30% mark.

kind of splitting hairs, would go as far as splitting atoms, minutiae of difference, i cant envisage substantial accrual of skeletal muscle tissue one over the other- i think the proof is already in the pudding with what you are already doing- a picture paints a 1000 words.

now...i think what would happen if you chose to do the above, is creation of a very acidic environment, so look to throw in some beta-alanine to even things out

Or Glutamine as this also is alkaline?

yeah i suppose, but thought BA for endurance element as well as buffer.

What sort of dose PWO for BA?

3g is the dose most supp companies use, i have never used BA myself, but believe it requires a loading period to gain "steady state".

I generally use about 4g PreWO as a rule but don't load at any other time during the day.

since you already take it, you would have already reached saturation stage, and just keep topping up in a way.

i think the big thing with doing all the above is expense, and commitment to pre-mixing own supps etc

bsd reloaded with a few inclusions or a spin off product going with aa's would more than suffice

I was mixing up before similar to Reloaded but just got some in today so the plan is this mixed with EAA's Pre and eventually I'll have some Tyrosine to add if it ever arrives from MP (don't ask!).

Intra is simply EAA's and Brown Rice Flour.

Post is more a work in progress and not finalised but at the moment EAA's, Brown Rice Flour, Glutamine with possible additions of BA and NA-RALA.

EAA-AKG could be a good combination.

Alex wrote:Thought I'd resurrect this subject for a discussion on the optimal Work Out Nutriton starting with Nitrogen sources.

I'm thinking either of these 2 methods could be favourable as a Nitrogen source base that can then be developed upon with inclusion of Carbs and other supplements:

PreWO: EAA's 15g
IntraWO: EAA's/BCAA's 15g
PostWO: 15g EAA's
PPWO (30 mins): WPC 50g

Or

PreWO: EAA's 15g
IntraWO: EAA's/BCAA's 15g
PostWO: HWP 50g

Interesting thread as I was speaking to KP about these supps just yesterday.

I'm currently doing this (only started this week actually):
PreWO (30 mins): EAAs 8g + BCAAs 8g + Glutamine 2g + Taurine 2g + ALCAR 2g + Creatine 2g
IntraWO: BCAAs 8g &/or Beta Alanine + Creatine blend (5g each)
PostWO: EAAs 8g + BCAAs 8g + Glutamine 2g + Taurine 2g
PPWO (30 mins): WPC 35g + WMS 30-50g + ALCAR 2g + Glycine 10g + Glutamine 2g + Mag Citrate 1-2g + + Creatine 2g + Leucine 2g -- OR a solid meal

PPWO will change as I've just got BSD's PWO Recovery Complete - although it's not a million miles away at all from what I'm currently taking.

BCAAs are 4:1:1
Glutamine mainly for it's alkalising abilities (but others things too).

The more I read about aminos the more I'm beginning to think that they really are the way to go for almost all powdered protein sources.

--

BSD should seriously make it a priority to get a EAA & BCAA blend out that tastes good/ok. Add in glutamine & taurine to both and you've got a world class product imo.
I would then recommend it for all my clients over whey (seeing that they do not want to have lots of different products and EAAs & BCAAs are a better choice over whey if you had to choose).

why the inclusion of alcar and taurine?
understand the magnesium inclusion but why not pre-workout for its anti fatigue properties?

Vit B complex Pre and PWO as well or differing forms of a complex to suit each state.

julesm wrote:why the inclusion of alcar and taurine?
understand the magnesium inclusion but why not pre-workout for its anti fatigue properties?

ALCAR:
# Nootropic effects [increases mental focus]
# Increase fat oxidation [thus fat loss]
# Can have beneficial effects on Testosterone
(BSD wrote and I agree)

Taurine:
# Regulates levels of calcium, improving strength endurance.
# Increases cell volume, leading to greater levels of protein synthesis
# Helps regulate nitric oxide production
# May reduce muscle-tissue breakdown
# Helps regulate electrolyte balance.
(BSD wrote and I agree)

Magnesium: is very powerful at lowering cortisol so makes sense to take after training. EAAs & BCAAs will be the main players pre & during with regards to anti-catabolism, so I see no need for magnesium there. Also, magnesium is great with improving insulin sensitivity.

Interesting thoughts though. But I haven't seen/heard any good sports nutritionist / guru / coach etc say to take magnesium pre.

And yes Vit B6 (and other Vit Bs) would be good pre too.

cheers for the rationale scott
rethink on the mag, would use intra, rather than pre

somewhat sidetracked today
may be worth having a rethink and going down the leucine only route, i'm waiting to get my hands on a few studies:

1: J Nutr. 2008 Dec;138(12):2307-8. Links
AMPing Down leucine action in skeletal muscle.Anthony TG, Anthony JC.
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Indiana University School of Medicine, Evansville, IN 47712, USA.

Leucine is brilliant yes. But I'm not convinced that long term it should be the only only amino.