I think all of us on here respect and admire the pro bodybuilders dedication to attain the physiques they have. I'm all so pretty sure a fair few of us prefer the physiques of yesteryear to the blocky, bulky & HGH physique we see on stage today.

So when do we think this change started to occur. For me it was with the winning of the Mr O in 1992 by Dorian Yates. He bought in to the sport mass that had never been seen before. But he also bought with it the need to gain and become ever bigger. I feel this led to the sport moving away from the original ideal of gaining mass whilst having an aesthetically pleasing appearance.

The Mr O went from this to this

I know which I prefer.

I agree, Yates was/is no doubt an amazingly gifted and hard working bodybuilder but the pescedent he set within the sport itself is not one I think has done bbing any favours. I like the look of the old school guys much better... zane, nubret, robinson, later on haney... much more appealing.

It was during 1990 and 1992 I beleive....it was then were alot of the drugs became more easily available in quantities on the black market and obv HGH was abundant.

That pic of Haney is just outstanding!...Mind you, still prefer Mike Mentzers for some reason

For pure aesthetics - and I know this is a cliche - but Arnold wins hands down. It's not development per se, more his genetics....muscle inserts, skeleton, posture etc. Even when he was lighter for film roles, he looked spectacular.

Orinoco wrote:For pure aesthetics - and I know this is a cliche - but Arnold wins hands down. It's not development per se, more his genetics....muscle inserts, skeleton, posture etc. Even when he was lighter for film roles, he looked spectacular.

Yeh good point...Commando and Predator comes to mind...

KP

I think Dorian opened peoples eyes as to what was possible.Im sure he may have used a few tricks that were previously not used also he has one iron will. He knew he had to out muscle people to win as he was not pleasing to the eye with his structure and he sure out muscled people!

that bicep in the Arnold first pic is just SICK! lol...

KP

I remember reading an interview with Shawn Ray many years ago,he said he feared that bodybuilding was becoming more about out and out muscle size than size,symetry,shape and definition. He also feared that because of this he would never win olympia. He was right.

Here's a link for Mentzer fans:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9793152934

In Yates first Olympia Haney was actually heavier than Yates I think . So in this respect I think that photo of Haney is a light one

However Haney was clever enough to see what was happening and got out with his health

I also disagree about Arnold and would point at the vicory pose of Serge Olivia , putthats going off the point

Makes me think what next! 20 years time = monsters

perfection for me is steve reeves

Looking at all these pictures just makes me feel small and even less of a man lol

surfstak wrote:Makes me think what next! 20 years time = monsters

perfection for me is steve reeves

Man you have no idea...I was talking to a guy begining of last year with regards to Myostatin Propeptide and follistatin which is all available for research now, and this stuff is just bloody amazing! (I mean that as in what it does as opposed to taking it). The developments in this arena are just soo bloody immense I can not describe!

For example, Myo Pro Peptide they say within 4 weeks you can increase overall muscle size by upto 30%! Now put that into perspective...imagine your current muscle mass and add 30% to it....

Follistatin is even a bigger beast! The major issue right now is the effects on heart and organs....one of the leading reseachers in this field Se-Jin Lee is at the forefront in this, and you can bet that within 3-5 years we are going to see size with small waste similar to cartoon characters!

If anyones interested, Ill throw in some really cool information and pictures of what this stuff can do in muscle size! SCARY!

KP

kp1512 wrote:

surfstak wrote:Makes me think what next! 20 years time = monsters

perfection for me is steve reeves

Man you have no idea...I was talking to a guy begining of last year with regards to Myostatin Propeptide and follistatin which is all available for research now, and this stuff is just bloody amazing! (I mean that as in what it does as opposed to taking it). The developments in this arena are just soo bloody immense I can not describe!

For example, Myo Pro Peptide they say within 4 weeks you can increase overall muscle size by upto 30%! Now put that into perspective...imagine your current muscle mass and add 30% to it....

Follistatin is even a bigger beast! The major issue right now is the effects on heart and organs....one of the leading reseachers in this field Se-Jin Lee is at the forefront in this, and you can bet that within 3-5 years we are going to see size with small waste similar to cartoon characters!

If anyones interested, Ill throw in some really cool information and pictures of what this stuff can do in muscle size! SCARY!

KP

Deff mate, super interested!

Thats crazy, imagine it, dedicated bodybuilders will be almost a different species to normal individuals!

Deff mate, super interested!

Missed this but heres some very interesting pics!

using Myo and Follistatin (latter being even more scary as a peptide!)



and to top it off read this

ScienceDaily (Aug. 29, 2007) — The Johns Hopkins scientist who first showed that the absence of the protein myostatin leads to oversized muscles in mice and men has now found a second protein, follistatin, whose overproduction in mice lacking myostatin doubles the muscle-building effect.

Results of the new study by Se-Jin Lee, M.D., Ph.D., in PloS One, show that while mice that lack the gene that makes myostatin have roughly twice the amount of body muscle as normal, mice without myostatin that also overproduce follistatin have about four times as much muscle as normal mice.

Lee, a professor of molecular biology and genetics, says this added muscle increase could significantly boost research efforts to “beef up” livestock or promote muscle growth in patients with muscular dystrophy and other wasting diseases.

Specifically, Lee first discovered that follistatin was capable of blocking myostatin activity in muscle cells grown under lab conditions. When he gave it to normal mice, the rodents bulked up, just as would happen if the myostatin gene in these animals was turned off.

He then genetically engineered a mouse that both lacked myostatin and made extra follistatin. If follistatin was increasing muscle growth solely by blocking myostatin, then Lee surmised that follistatin would have no added effect in the absence of myostatin.

“To my surprise and delight, there was an additive effect,” said Lee, who notes that these muscular mice averaged a 117 percent increase in muscle fiber size and a 73 percent increase in total muscle fibers compared to normal mice.

“These findings show that the capacity for increasing muscle growth by targeting these pathways is much more extensive than we have appreciated,” adds Lee. “Now we’ll search for other players that cooperate with myostatin so we can tap the full potential for enhancing muscle growth for clinical applications.”

Lee adds that this issue is of particular significance, as most agents targeting this pathway, including one drug being currently tested in a muscular dystrophy clinical trial, have been designed to block only myostatin and not other related proteins.

The research was funded by grants from the NIH and the Muscular Dystrophy Association and by a gift from Merck Research Laboratories.

Now, follistatin really is just unbeleviable!.....Def Super Man Juice!.....Now imagine if a Pro BB took this for 6 weeks what would happen!.......

KP

blimey... had read a little about myostatin before but this is crazy! I want some...

Dtlv74 wrote:blimey... had read a little about myostatin before but this is crazy! I want some...

you know the scary thing..anyone can get it...peptide manufactuers are selling this as research....both, Myo and Folll...but I can tell you one thing.....as we dont know if it affects the heart..it would be one hell of a risk!.....and without doubt a dangerous exercice..Im sure theres some BB out there thinking about it though!

kp1512 wrote:

Dtlv74 wrote:blimey... had read a little about myostatin before but this is crazy! I want some...

you know the scary thing..anyone can get it...peptide manufactuers are selling this as research....both, Myo and Folll...but I can tell you one thing.....as we dont know if it affects the heart..it would be one hell of a risk!.....and without doubt a dangerous exercice..Im sure theres some BB out there thinking about it though!

Yeah an enlarged heart is a pretty much a guarantee of an early visit to the grave! Still, it's a fascinating area of research...

Resurrected wrote:I think all of us on here respect and admire the pro bodybuilders dedication to attain the physiques they have. I'm all so pretty sure a fair few of us prefer the physiques of yesteryear to the blocky, bulky & HGH physique we see on stage today.

So when do we think this change started to occur. For me it was with the winning of the Mr O in 1992 by Dorian Yates. He bought in to the sport mass that had never been seen before. But he also bought with it the need to gain and become ever bigger. I feel this led to the sport moving away from the original ideal of gaining mass whilst having an aesthetically pleasing appearance.

The Mr O went from this to this

I know which I prefer.

That is possibly the worst Dorian image around. For me its all been natural progression and the judging of the Mr O has alot to answer for. While physiques have gotten bigger and bigger its only normal that the midsection will get bigger too. Whilst I dont think the likes of Ronnie coleman look good, they are of such size that having a 30" waist isnt feasible. Arnold came in with a combination of thick mass and conditioning. Lee Haney bettered that by bringing even more mass and a more complete package (notably bigger legs) still with the conditioning. Dorian then bettered that again, even more thick mass and even more conditioned - hard and grainy!!! For me Ronnie Coleman, whilst a genetic freak in his own right, ruined it in his later years with his 40" belly. Whether that is down to GH abuse or just an insane amount of food or just genetics who can say for sure? Then we have Jay Cutler. Massive, conditioned and has a decent size wait for a 300lb guy. noteably smaller than colemans anyhow! Right now bb'ers are at around 300lbs however there does seem to be a fashion for these guys to come in slightly smaller now but with smaller waists - look at Dennis Wolf and Phil Heath. Both around 240-260lbs with tiny waists. Maybe just genetics or maybe trying to change the game? Victor Martinez is another big guy with a little waist. The big waist thing isnt as bad as made out, but nowadays people are more mindful of it. All the Olympia champions looked great on their day too.......here are a few (decent) pix:

Dorian:


Coleman:



Jay:



And of course the future Mr O's (you heard it here first!):

Dennis Wolf:


Phil Heath:


Victor Martinez:



I think its down to the judges to change the game as well as the atheletes, and they are, slowly. Smaller guys are coming through into the Olympia looking more and more aesthetically pleasing and being awarded for it. What do they do different? less drugs? less food? Pilates? Genetics? who knows? I think so long as your waist is in relation to the rest of your body you'll look good no matter what. its when you have a 50" chest and a 40"+ waist you start to look like crap....



The sport and its athletes have gotten as big as they can. Now its time to refine that and make it more about the art and science rather than the sheer freakiness.

kp1512 wrote:
If anyones interested, Ill throw in some really cool information and pictures of what this stuff can do in muscle size! SCARY!

KP

I'm interested KP, please share

Nrage - sure thing.....its before your posts...with pictures on mice..

On a side note, the improvements Phil Heath has made over the past 14 months have been short of outstanding...never have I seen any BB make the progress he has...

KP

kp1512 wrote:Nrage - sure thing.....its before your posts...with pictures on mice..

On a side note, the improvements Phil Heath has made over the past 14 months have been short of outstanding...never have I seen any BB make the progress he has...

KP

Have you not seen recent pix of Trey Brewer?

Trey Brewer looks unreal.

I really like Dennis Wolf and Phil Heath.

I think that MP's James Llewyn could do well when he makes pro

nrage04 wrote:

kp1512 wrote:Nrage - sure thing.....its before your posts...with pictures on mice..

On a side note, the improvements Phil Heath has made over the past 14 months have been short of outstanding...never have I seen any BB make the progress he has...

KP

Have you not seen recent pix of Trey Brewer?

LOL...yes...have you seen his recent off season one?..Lol..let me go and link it.....

But he is a true freak! 22..and that size......I just hope he got good advisers and all..as his body is going to take a pounding .....albeit he is now a pretty much household name over there

KP