Quick question for all those who belong to the campaign for "Real Steriod Use".

What would be the ideal 8 week course for a newbie in his 40's including all ancillaries etc.?

The required result is lean gains with the minimum of side effects.

What you need:

16 amps test E (pharma) dosed at 250mg a ml.
A choice of anti E on hand (A-dex, aromisin, ATD) - I prefer adex but am also very fond of ATD.
Some syringes and needles from medisave, 25g greens and 23g blues plus 2.5ml syringes.
Some HCG (comes in either 1500 iu or 5000 iu amps), seperate bac water
PCT meds you know the suspects here, I prefer torm.
To be down to about 10% BF.

So it would look something like this:

Weeks 1-8: 500mg test E (You can shoot once a week but I prefer 250mg split dose)
Weeks 1-8: A-dex 1mg E3D if your not gyno prone, 0.5mg every day if you are. (fat storage patterns will indicate this)
Weeks 2-8: 500iu HCG shoot twice a week (this can be done sub Q with a slin pin if you hate jabs, or IM if you have no issues)

PCT starts two weeks after last dose.

Good info Craig, what sort of results could one expect?

Difficult question I know, but would one get "huge" on such a course?

Test Enanthate [Iranium if pos] 500mg per week = 16 amps 250 each. [1 injection a week]

Anastrozole if needed or to keep water to a minimum.

Run with 500mg vit c 3x day 10g fish oils a day.

PCT - tamoxifen [nolvadex] / clomid

HCG 5000iu if balls go to small

Craig - I would not run HCG as early as week 2, only on say week 6 - 12 I did not get any problems in that area really, but they came around week 6-8 if at all.

Gains would be steady in terms of size, decent amount of lean muscle. Main gains in size come 7-10 weeks. Strength goes boom literally after 2 jabs.

curtis wrote:Test Enanthate [Iranium if pos] 500mg per week = 16 amps 250 each. [1 injection a week]

Anastrozole if needed or to keep water to a minimum.

Run with 500mg vit c 3x day 10g fish oils a day.

PCT - tamoxifen [nolvadex] / clomid

HCG 5000iu if balls go to small

The Aburaihan Iran test is not evenly dosed from batch to batch, some are over dosed, some badly under and its commonly faked. Would not be my pharma of choice.

As for gains, tough one but ball park totaly weight gain 18-21 pounds of which is muscle that you keep after PCT 14 pounds. Main gains come for me weeks 3-6 after that may as well not be on. Everyones different.

Craig wrote:

curtis wrote:Test Enanthate [Iranium if pos] 500mg per week = 16 amps 250 each. [1 injection a week]

Anastrozole if needed or to keep water to a minimum.

Run with 500mg vit c 3x day 10g fish oils a day.

PCT - tamoxifen [nolvadex] / clomid

HCG 5000iu if balls go to small

The Aburaihan Iran test is not evenly dosed from batch to batch, some are over dosed, some badly under and its commonly faked. Would not be my pharma of choice.

As for gains, tough one but ball park totaly weight gain 18-21 pounds of which is muscle that you keep after PCT 14 pounds. Main gains come for me weeks 3-6 after that may as well not be on. Everyones different.

Thats strange, I had gains up to week 10 and probably would have further imo. I didn't get ANY size gains until I actually ate above maintenance kcals, just a warning it isn't magic blow up potion lol.

Yes if from a trusted source its excellent stuff, I know MXD rated it 10x over sustanon with just 1 jab at 500mg!! You have a lot of things to look for on fakes I have a good source and can share with Simon if needed so all good.

Craig wrote:What you need:

16 amps test E (pharma) dosed at 250mg a ml.
A choice of anti E on hand (A-dex, aromisin, ATD) - I prefer adex but am also very fond of ATD.
Some syringes and needles from medisave, 25g greens and 23g blues plus 2.5ml syringes.
Some HCG (comes in either 1500 iu or 5000 iu amps), seperate bac water
PCT meds you know the suspects here, I prefer torm.
To be down to about 10% BF.

So it would look something like this:

Weeks 1-8: 500mg test E (You can shoot once a week but I prefer 250mg split dose)
Weeks 1-8: A-dex 1mg E3D if your not gyno prone, 0.5mg every day if you are. (fat storage patterns will indicate this)
Weeks 2-8: 500iu HCG shoot twice a week (this can be done sub Q with a slin pin if you hate jabs, or IM if you have no issues)

PCT starts two weeks after last dose.

I would agree with the above, but maybe extend the cycle to 10 wks, results and gains will all depend on diet and training style, ive seen many great gains from first cycles but at your age i will say this your going to open yourself to a whole new world

Thats strange, I had gains up to week 10 and probably would have further imo as I said everyone different. I didn't get ANY size gains until I actually ate above maintenance kcals NO shit sherlock, just a warning it isn't magic blow up potion lol.

Yes if from a trusted source its excellent stuff, I know MXD rated it 10x over sustanon with just 1 jab at 500mg!! You have a lot of things to look for on fakes I have a good source and can share with Simon if needed so all good.[/quote]

Even the genuine batches vary, the lab it self have dosing issues, its pot luck I've had some sh1t hot ones and some I might as well not of been using. All where genuine. Its a lottery.

Craig wrote:Thats strange, I had gains up to week 10 and probably would have further imo as I said everyone different. I didn't get ANY size gains until I actually ate above maintenance kcals NO shit sherlock, just a warning it isn't magic blow up potion lol.

Yes if from a trusted source its excellent stuff, I know MXD rated it 10x over sustanon with just 1 jab at 500mg!! You have a lot of things to look for on fakes I have a good source and can share with Simon if needed so all good.

Even the genuine batches vary, the lab it self have dosing issues, its pot luck I've had some sh1t hot ones and some I might as well not of been using. All where genuine. Its a lottery.[/quote]

No need to be cocky mate, I was stating a point, in case he didn't know.....I was like wtf after 3 weeks... thinking is it really tbone? What made me think you can eat nothing and grow is the fact little chavies who only eat pills at weekends and sweets in the week shoot up off it.

They tend to use stupid doses to grow, you can join KP in the key of not getting sense of humor, I'm sure he'll be glad to have you in the club. ( )

thanks fellas - I may do this in January as my life isn't too hectic in the early New Year

simon m wrote:thanks fellas - I may do this in January as my life isn't too hectic in the early New Year

Good luck!! Why you thinking this? Did you see my pictures and have a lust?

curtis wrote:

simon m wrote:thanks fellas - I may do this in January as my life isn't too hectic in the early New Year

Good luck!! Why you thinking this? Did you see my pictures and have a lust?

Two reasons.

The first is that I'm just curious to see the difference between a pulse on Epistane that I did for a month and the second is that you are my idol and I want to be just like you, so I'm having the leg and dick shortening booked for November and the lobotomy in December

simon m wrote:

curtis wrote:

simon m wrote:thanks fellas - I may do this in January as my life isn't too hectic in the early New Year

Good luck!! Why you thinking this? Did you see my pictures and have a lust?

Two reasons.

The first is that I'm just curious to see the difference between a pulse on Epistane that I did for a month and the second is that you are my idol and I want to be just like you, so I'm having the leg and dick shortening booked for November and the lobotomy in December

Well thats like comparing the Astin Martin DB9 to a Escort XR3i

simon m wrote:

curtis wrote:

simon m wrote:thanks fellas - I may do this in January as my life isn't too hectic in the early New Year

Good luck!! Why you thinking this? Did you see my pictures and have a lust?

Two reasons.

The first is that I'm just curious to see the difference between a pulse on Epistane that I did for a month and the second is that you are my idol and I want to be just like you, so I'm having the leg and dick shortening booked for November and the lobotomy in December

So when are you getting the finishing touch, the sledgehammer to the face?

So when are you getting the finishing touch, the sledgehammer to the face?

I will be helping him out with that 1

^^^LOL - good luck with this Simon, been planning a 10 weeker to start in Jan myself and will prob be going with Craig's suggestion on PCT product. Will do a cut November through Decamber. If B/F is on then will start according to schedule. If not, will be a little later. I'll be running just test E and precautionary tools. If I like then I may do this every Jan. You know how it is, suck i and see...

upright wrote:^^^LOL - good luck with this Simon, been planning a 10 weeker to start in Jan myself and will prob be going with Craig's suggestion on PCT product. Will do a cut November through Decamber. If B/F is on then will start according to schedule. If not, will be a little later. I'll be running just test E and precautionary tools. If I like then I may do this every Jan. You know how it is, suck i and see...

The weight gain through Jan, Feb & March is comfortable and sets you up for the rest of the year - sounds like a plan!

How you boys can diet throughout November and December is another matter though!

ollie wrote:How you boys can diet throughout November and December is another matter though!

I eat less in December as I'm sick of it, plus I'd increase cardio.

simon m wrote:

ollie wrote:How you boys can diet throughout November and December is another matter though!

I eat less in December as I'm sick of it, plus I'd increase cardio.

Yep just up the cardio and have the special days as cheat days, should be no probs.

Cheat day=xmas and New Year. As long as I plan every single meal, I don't find I stray from the program easily. Otherwise I just pick at stuff all day long as is the case at the moment, although, training like Jake requires a huge calorie intake to avoid getting fatigued and picking up colds(which I've forced the issue with this last week). Hence, I'll be going Full body EOD, rapido November/December, Cardio on off days - puke enducing - easy when it's a bit cooler.

Gonna be sans supps aside from whey/creatine while on cycle to measure the effeciveness, and then ram a load of stuff in when I come off to aid with the not so good feeling of not being on. Seen a few guys at work recently who are pretty down since coming off and I don't fancy that much. One guy whinging about losing 3k in the last 3 weeks - but then he thought that taking 4 months of gear and minimal/pathetic PCT and then not eating as much and not taining as much would hold his gains...

upright wrote:Cheat day=xmas and New Year. As long as I plan every single meal, I don't find I stray from the program easily. Otherwise I just pick at stuff all day long as is the case at the moment, although, training like Jake requires a huge calorie intake to avoid getting fatigued and picking up colds(which I've forced the issue with this last week). Hence, I'll be going Full body EOD, rapido November/December, Cardio on off days - puke enducing - easy when it's a bit cooler.

Gonna be sans supps aside from whey/creatine while on cycle to measure the effeciveness, and then ram a load of stuff in when I come off to aid with the not so good feeling of not being on. Seen a few guys at work recently who are pretty down since coming off and I don't fancy that much. One guy whinging about losing 3k in the last 3 weeks - but then he thought that taking 4 months of gear and minimal/pathetic PCT and then not eating as much and not taining as much would hold his gains...

Wouldn't it be better to have as many supps as possible on cycle to maximize your gains, like some supplements may be even better whilst on due to the properties of the steroid used.

How would you go about the missus Si? Keep it quiet?

I have been pussy whipped and told that there is to be no nedles in our house. She is wise to this game