What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Forum to discuss supplements and get general advice.

What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby kp1512 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:45 pm

What do you think is better?

BCAA 4:1:1 before and after total around 40g or EAA 15g before and after?

OR - would you say BCAA 4:1:1 before and after for total of 40g and then EAA of between 6-10g when you can during the day?
kp1512
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 10517
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:26 am
Location: London \ Manchester - UK

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby simon m on Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:41 pm

I'd just go leucine as that works and take it three times per day and up to four on a training day post workout.
Have YOU kissed your guns today?!
User avatar
simon m
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 8720
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: London

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Alex on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:33 pm

I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference after using various combinations. Most of us think Amino's are superior to whey during the workout period and yet I'd say I probably look better using whey over Amino's in this period so go figure.
'Behave like you are the best...and you'll have the best chance of being the best you can be.'

'Be effective: do what works...and keep doing it.'

'Bask in the turbulence of my magnificence.'
User avatar
Alex
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 10604
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:05 am

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Mike on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:51 pm

How about just train hard and take protein
User avatar
Mike
Dedicated Member
 
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:57 am

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Rilla on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:55 pm

Mike wrote:How about just train hard and take protein


Technically, you could argue that protein=aminos, and as such that is exactly what KP is suggesting. :D
Big Choppa wrote:Rab's face probably scares the bar up. Explains his Shit deadlift as well cause the wants to stay away from his deformed bonce.
User avatar
Rilla
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 6556
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:11 pm

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Mike on Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:50 am

Anytime I get to speak to someone or read an interview with olympic weight lifters etc I never hear anyone say they bother with bcaa's/eaa's...its always train hard > eat > rest > repeat.

They may have their place but shouldnt be replacing protein in your diet and from what I understand bcaa powder doesnt taste anywhere near as good as chicken, technically speaking of course :lol:
User avatar
Mike
Dedicated Member
 
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:57 am

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby kp1512 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:56 am

Mike wrote:Anytime I get to speak to someone or read an interview with olympic weight lifters etc I never hear anyone say they bother with bcaa's/eaa's...its always train hard > eat > rest > repeat.

They may have their place but shouldnt be replacing protein in your diet and from what I understand bcaa powder doesnt taste anywhere near as good as chicken, technically speaking of course :lol:


Mike

Knowledge in such areas is very slow to be spread and so people still stick with things they know. This is good and bad. Bad as it doesnt allow for progression, good as theyll always get what theyve always got.

This is the first time I am using EAA/BCAA in such a fashion as I want to see for myself its effects as on paper and in studies it has proven to be superior again and again.
kp1512
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 10517
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:26 am
Location: London \ Manchester - UK

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby kp1512 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:57 am

Alex wrote:I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference after using various combinations. Most of us think Amino's are superior to whey during the workout period and yet I'd say I probably look better using whey over Amino's in this period so go figure.


Interesting. Id have thought EAA would have been far better.
kp1512
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 10517
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:26 am
Location: London \ Manchester - UK

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby SCOTT GALTON on Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:35 am

I have been using bcaa 5 g preworkout and 20g during in some sugar free squash. I have noticed that im not so dead during my workout when doing this. I got these by some one getting 100g and 1kg mixed up on my order (not bsd) so i thought why not use them. They taste really unpleasant so when i run out i might just get some to use during the workout
BSD21 IS THE CODE THAT GIVES YOU MUSCLES AND 5% DISCOUNT

OFFICIAL MEMBER OF THE DWARF EMPIRE
The Dwarf EMPIRE WILL RULE THE WORLD OUR NUMBERS ARE GROWING

http://esnpro.ning.com/
User avatar
SCOTT GALTON
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Karlos on Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:53 am

After using everything related, i can safely say it's made no difference for me..or so little, it's not noticeable. And why would it. Eat a meal a few hours before and you've got a shit load of AA's rushing round the body.

So i will either be using nothing, or leucine due to price.
Use discount code BSD16 for 5% off your first order
Karlos
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:12 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Ader on Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:55 am

I feel better if I use Leucine in my drink during workouts

I've been using BCAA and EAA post workout to 'boost' my protein drink - Not sure I've noticed any difference though TBH
____________________________________________________________________________
Don’t let the sets last much longer than ten seconds, total. Kinda like sex with a hot chick, hit it hard for ten seconds.
User avatar
Ader
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 2528
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:08 pm
Location: An Office, Slough :(

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby simon m on Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:28 am

When leucine is the major factor in the success of BCAA why take anything else?
Have YOU kissed your guns today?!
User avatar
simon m
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 8720
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: London

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Dtlv74 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:46 pm

A good pre- and during workout protocol to follow is;

0.1g/kg bodyweight of EAAs,
0.1g/kg bodyweight of 4:1:1 BCAAs or Leucine
0.2g/kg bodyweight of fast carbs

So for someone weighing 80kg it would be 8g EAA, 8g BCAA and 16g CHO. Is economical, subjectively seems to work, and fairly closely follows the conclusions of the studies of Tipton, Wolf, Lemon etc so has a little scientific backing.

EAAs pre- and during defintely seems to improve performance and immediate post workout recovery for me when training at higher intensity. At lower intensity sessions don't really notice much difference with or without it. After the session i prefer a whey/milk protein drink.

The idea of taking frequent small EAA feedings between meals is a good one, but only really for someone who doesnt split their protein into small feeds already. The recent studies on protein synthesis seem to show that frequently spiking plasma levels with EAAs is a very anabolic dietary thing to do... but you must let plasma levels drop off from the previous spike before taking more. It appears its not so much high levels of EAAs all the time that is anabolic but that its the effect of EAAs suddenly going up and spiking that stimulates anabolic pathways the most... so you have to let plasma EAAs fall away before spiking again. Depending on the protein source this will normally mean that there's no point spiking protein more frequently than every three hours or so, so i'd say only bother with EAAs between meals if eating protein to a normal three meals a day pattern.

Final comment about Leucine vs BCAAs. Leucine on its own is fine, but remember that it requires the presence of the other two BCAAs to be fully utilised. If you don't take the isoleucine and valine at the same time then the body will catabolise them from its tissues to maintain a plasma balance. This isn't going to be a problem for most who eat a high protein diet, as the other two BCAAs will be present in abundance, but for those who don't, BCAA may be a better choice than Leucine alone.
User avatar
Dtlv74
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 3048
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: SW England

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby kp1512 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:04 pm

thanks Det.
kp1512
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 10517
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:26 am
Location: London \ Manchester - UK

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Mike on Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:11 pm

kp1512 wrote:
Mike wrote:Anytime I get to speak to someone or read an interview with olympic weight lifters etc I never hear anyone say they bother with bcaa's/eaa's...its always train hard > eat > rest > repeat.

They may have their place but shouldnt be replacing protein in your diet and from what I understand bcaa powder doesnt taste anywhere near as good as chicken, technically speaking of course :lol:


Mike

Knowledge in such areas is very slow to be spread and so people still stick with things they know. This is good and bad. Bad as it doesnt allow for progression, good as theyll always get what theyve always got.

This is the first time I am using EAA/BCAA in such a fashion as I want to see for myself its effects as on paper and in studies it has proven to be superior again and again.


KP

BCAA's have been around for as long as I can remember. I guess the people at the top stick with what works (the basics) and dont obsess too much over specific details - unless there is a real need.

If you wanna try it then good for you. Please report back with your views/progress/thoughts.
User avatar
Mike
Dedicated Member
 
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:57 am

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby health4ni on Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:57 pm

^^ listening to "old skool" BBers and weight-lifters is a sure fire way to perpetuate the myths that exist in these sports. Both for training & nutrition... but especially nutrition. That being said, they of course have experience and some great knowledge about many things on the subject. Just be selective in what you learn. This is something I know all too well from my own teachings etc.

Those in the know, that is to say those that research and experiment with free form aminos and are natural have clearly found a significant benefit of it's use. Again, if you eat shit solid foods and/or train poorly it matters not how many aminos you shove down yer neck.

kp1512 wrote:What do you think is better?

BCAA 4:1:1 before and after total around 40g or EAA 15g before and after?

OR - would you say BCAA 4:1:1 before and after for total of 40g and then EAA of between 6-10g when you can during the day?
I believe that 8-16g of each is best. And if you have to choose pre or post then I'd do 30-60mins pre. Then take fast acting carbs (if the session was hard) with 20-30g of WPC.

I think Det's post is pretty spot on though tbh.
A couple of things though:
1. I wouldn't use any carbs pre unless you are exercising for well over an hour (like a swimmer's early morning 2hr session). In that case then I think that 20-40g of fast acting carbs is very useful in the swimming example.
2. Again, I wouldn't use any carbs during a training session unless it is a long session (>1hr). Or you didn't eat at least 2hrs before training.
3. With the above two comments in relation to carbs I'll summarise my thoughts: for most people here that lift weights for no longer than 1hr, then carbs only post-workout if you are lean &/or had a real ball-busting session. Unless you are desperate to add weight (mostly fat) that is.

--

I also think the suggestion that leucine can be used instead of all these aminos on it's own is incorrect. As Det says, leucine needs at least a few other aminos to exert it's real potential. I've seen no studies or heard any anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise. That being said, leucine is very powerful. Taking some in your during solid meal drink is something I've been doing for a while. The solid protein provides the other aminos and leucine "powers them up" (supposedly).
Cluster Training
http://health4ni.com/ :: BSD Discount Code: BSD6505
User avatar
health4ni
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 5532
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:58 am
Location: Belfast, UK

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby marcus300 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:01 pm

Ive tried many different ways of using EAA/BCAA's Pre, post and during some very intense training sessions and I can't state it made any kind of difference what so ever, but that doesnt mean they are not worth taking, many people repsond differently to supplements and they should be used if you feel they make a difference.
User avatar
marcus300
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 2:59 pm

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Rilla on Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:29 pm

Like many others here, I've tried more or less everything and at least for me, it's made very little difference.
As y'all probably know, there's one thing I keep coming back to (heh, actaully I never go away from it lol) and that's stims. A bit of stims and a decent meal pre works for me.
I'm keeping it pretty simple compared to what I used to and I look better than ever.
Big Choppa wrote:Rab's face probably scares the bar up. Explains his Shit deadlift as well cause the wants to stay away from his deformed bonce.
User avatar
Rilla
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 6556
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:11 pm

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby health4ni on Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:42 pm

I guess it also comes back to what do people compare the results with?

When I first used EAAs & BCAAs I had dramatically less DOMs. That is a great benefit for one thing. They do taste bad though lol

Free form aminos don't really need to be digested; just absorbed into the blood and then assimilated into the muscle cells. This can happen as quick as 5mins, but maybe up to 20mins. Far far quicker than whey etc.

They also don't cause any issues with potential allergies like the constant use of dairy foods.

Stims: can be useful is used sensibly. But it does depend on what is included. And a short term gain often hides the long term damage to adrenal glands. That is something you don't really want to mess with too much.
Cluster Training
http://health4ni.com/ :: BSD Discount Code: BSD6505
User avatar
health4ni
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 5532
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:58 am
Location: Belfast, UK

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Rilla on Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:50 pm

My adrenals are already fucked lol. :D

My point is that there are so many things I'd get just right before venturing onto BCAA. They are (in my eyes) a product for somebody who's got everything else 95% nailed, and honestly, that's not me. I believe some people here will benefit from them, but I must say it surprises me that Alex didn't feel he got anything from them - he's one out of a ninja-turtle handful I would've expected to get results from them.

So from a cost-efficiency point of view, they're not close to being worth it - at least not for me.
Big Choppa wrote:Rab's face probably scares the bar up. Explains his Shit deadlift as well cause the wants to stay away from his deformed bonce.
User avatar
Rilla
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 6556
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:11 pm

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby health4ni on Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:57 pm

I think given the choice I'd say EAAs are better than BCAAs. But yes it interesting that Alex says he thinks he looks better on whey than aminos.

For me, I just use WPC post-workout and very very occasionally with my breakfast porridge.

I then use EAAs & BCAAs pre (& sometimes during) and then sometimes post workout.

Remember though: I'm currently experimenting with my protein intake and timings. And so my thoughts are based on current testing.
Cluster Training
http://health4ni.com/ :: BSD Discount Code: BSD6505
User avatar
health4ni
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 5532
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:58 am
Location: Belfast, UK

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Rilla on Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:02 pm

When I say BCAA, I mean either EAA or BCAA lol. Also, you're the only other person I can think of just now that's in the 95%+ sorted group. ;)
Big Choppa wrote:Rab's face probably scares the bar up. Explains his Shit deadlift as well cause the wants to stay away from his deformed bonce.
User avatar
Rilla
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 6556
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:11 pm

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby health4ni on Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:09 pm

I have a client that after 10 weeks has gained 5.5kg of muscle and lost 5.5kg of fat. He uses a BCAA & EAA blend that I recommend pre-during & post. He has a WPC shake after only if he can't get a solid meal within a n hour after training. He saw me 3 times a week.

Sure, it's not all down to the aminos, but I reckon they helped a lot.
Cluster Training
http://health4ni.com/ :: BSD Discount Code: BSD6505
User avatar
health4ni
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 5532
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:58 am
Location: Belfast, UK

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Alex on Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:37 pm

I would say I looked a little fuller with whey over Aminos but this is only from a couple of weeks back when I'd run out of Amino's for a week or so. Could well have been simple coincidence but Amino's are still my choice around workouts.
'Behave like you are the best...and you'll have the best chance of being the best you can be.'

'Be effective: do what works...and keep doing it.'

'Bask in the turbulence of my magnificence.'
User avatar
Alex
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 10604
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:05 am

Re: What do you think is better? EAA/BCAA Question

Postby Dtlv74 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:56 pm

The thing with 'not noticing a difference' is that you really have to wait to see anything significant anyway. If you gain say 0.5kg LBM a month on three days a week training and a post workout whey drink, if you then switched to EAAs and it turns out they are 10% more effective, a significant amount in this game, it would still take you ten weeks to gain the extra 0.5kg... and you probably would be unlikely to notice the extra for the majority of those ten weeks too.

Never dismiss a protocol unless having compared its longterm use to longterm use of a different protocol... is too easy to dismiss something too soon and return to what feels comfortable (and may work but also may not actually be best). I would say that i grow better with the EAA/BCAA drink preworkout, but other than the improved effect on DOMS (which to me is instant), the slightly improved weight gain that i attribute to the protocol took me about two-three months to even begin to notice.
User avatar
Dtlv74
Ultimate Contributor
 
Posts: 3048
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: SW England

Next

Return to Supplements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests

cron