What Defines Someone Physically Strong In The Gym?

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What Defines Someone Physically Strong In The Gym?

Postby health4ni on Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:47 pm

I'm referring to physical strength in the gym with a number of exercises.

I've found these:

Jason Ferruggia wrote:A strong guy can squat double bodyweight, pull 2.5 times bodyweight and do a dozen solid chin ups.


Dan John wrote:I consider someone to be at minimal strength levels when they can:

Bench body weight
Do an honest pull-up
Deadlift double body weight

After that, the athlete should strive for:

15 reps with body weight in the bench press
15 real pull-ups
15 reps with body weight on the bar in the back squat


Has anyone found any other coaches/trainers etc thoughts on this? Please post of you have.

And your own thoughts on what constitutes "strong".

Thanks


---

For the past few years I've thought that it's 2xBW Squat, 2.5xBW Deadlift & 20 Pullups. Not sure about pressing movements.
Last edited by health4ni on Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What Makes Someone Strong?

Postby Resurrected on Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:48 pm

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Re: What Makes Someone Strong?

Postby GymBunny on Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:54 pm

I actually think strong is more of a mental thing. It's the fortitude to push yourself, to challenge yourself.
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Re: What Makes Someone Strong?

Postby Max on Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:57 pm

3*bw dl
3*bw squat
2*bw bench
Pb's: Bench:140*10 - DL 260*2 - Squat to // 232.5*3
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Re: What Makes Someone Strong?

Postby Dtlv74 on Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:59 pm

For me someone is 'strong' if they can lift/move/push/pull more than me! Is a relative concept.

I think though that good medium-long term goals to aim for when starting out, ones that you can definitely aim at and call landmark strength targets, are:

pressing bodyweight OH,
squatting bodyweight x1.5,
deadlifting bodyweight x2

then move the targets up once you get there!
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Re: What Makes Someone Strong?

Postby Flash Sketcha on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:06 pm

Max wrote:3*bw dl
3*bw squat
2*bw bench


Sounds a bit disproportioned to be honest IMO.



I think there are different types of physical strength. Theres the pure kind of strength like raw powerlifting, then theres the more athletic kind of strength like dips, chins etc If you know what I mean.
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Re: What Makes Someone Strong?

Postby health4ni on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:20 pm

GymBunny wrote:I actually think strong is more of a mental thing. It's the fortitude to push yourself, to challenge yourself.
Indeed. But that's why I asked about physical strength :D

Max wrote:3*bw dl
3*bw squat
2*bw bench

That imo is super strong. I personally feel that a 3xBW Squat is something that would take me years to achieve; indeed I think most people couldn't do that and yet may well get a 3xBW deadlift and 2xBW bench. And I'm not talking about a Powerlifting squat. A full squat that breaks parallel at least.

But good to know what you think.

Dtlv74 wrote:pressing bodyweight OH,
squatting bodyweight x1.5,
deadlifting bodyweight x2
yeah, looks good.

ash fletcher wrote:I think there are different types of physical strength. Theres the pure kind of strength like raw powerlifting, then theres the more athletic kind of strength like dips, chins etc If you know what I mean.


Sure I know what you mean. All the Powerlifters are strong boys. But overall strength for many different exercises is a different matter. Many can't do more than 3 chins for example. My mate Glenn Ross is one of the strongest fellas in the world but can only do 3 chins. Not sure about dips.

I'm talking about overall strength in the gym with various exercises. And no suits for deads or squats or benches. Straps allowed for whatever exercise.

lol didn't realise I had to make it so clear. I thought you'd all see where I was coming from :)
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby GymBunny on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:28 pm

I know I realised my mistake but you'd already quoted me.

Physical strength. I would be inclined to say someone who is functionally strong. Not someone who can squat 3x their own body weight, but functionally in control of their body. So for e.g. a climber who can pull their whole bodyweight up on 2fingers. Sheridan would be my rugby example. Mass, strength, but functional. So I wouldn't class Ronnie as physically strong as I doubt he could do a 3week long mountain hike for example.
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby health4ni on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:39 pm

Yup, agree with what you're saying.

But again, it's about keeping the scope within a certain limit and that limit makes sense to be one within a gym.

So a person that could do a chin with 2 fingers AND squat 1.5xBW and 2xBW deadlift would be a strong person for example by my criteria.
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby Ader on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:40 pm

I think strength is specific - The question in my mind is are you strong at what you do?

So for GB doing finger pull ups is a good indication of a climber's strength.

For a PL'ers strength is measured by what you lift - Shimples.

For a rugby player it's a mix of endurance (a form of strength in itself) and pure physical strength (not sure how to explain what I mean there) but e.g. riding the tackle well and still being able to do it at the end of the game - And it's a different measure for forwards and backs.

One thing top people have in common is the ability to push themselves to their limit - A good squatter for example not only has good technique, but is able to give it that bit more and push through the sticking point even when at a complete max out and doesn''t give up when a lesser individual would.

Oh and obviously a lot of fast twitch fibres are essential ;)
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby GymBunny on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:52 pm

And I think post of the day goes to Ader! :D
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby health4ni on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:54 pm

@Ader: Again, I certainly agree that strength is sport specific

health4ni wrote:I'm referring to physical strength in the gym with exercises.
:D
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby GymBunny on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:55 pm

health4ni wrote:@Ader: Again, I certainly agree that strength is sport specific

health4ni wrote:I'm referring to physical strength in the gym with exercises.
:D

Then I stand by what I said. 1 arm pull ups = strong.
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby Ader on Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:01 pm

Oh ok then - Bloody great big squats bench and deadlifts are my idea of strong- So 200Kg + squats & Dl's - Bench not so sure but say 150Kg - So talking about maybe 2.5BW squat, 2BW bench and 3BW DL.

Pull ups don't impress me and not just becasue I can't do them lol, but it's always the skinny guys that can do them for reps - As soon as you put on some bulk they become too hard - I know some guys that can do a 300Kg+ deadlift at 100kg BW, but pretty sure they'd struggle to do many pull ups :)
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby Ader on Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:03 pm

GymBunny wrote:Then I stand by what I said. 1 arm pull ups = strong.
I think my compuer's out of synch, just noticed this - OK I don't rate pull ups but one arm pull ups are pretty strong :D
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby health4ni on Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:08 pm

With regards to someone that can't do many pullups, then they don't have overall physical strength in the gym. Sure, they piss all over me with a 300kg deadlift at 100kg BW.

I honestly didn't realise this would be such a hard question to answer. I don't mean that flippantly. I mean that I (incorrectly) thought that people would view in as an overall strength on many "core" exercises like squat, deadlift, bench, dips, chins, pressups, overhead presses etc
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Re: What Defines Someone Physically Strong In The Gym?

Postby simon m on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:30 pm

Bench 1.5 x bodyweight
Squat 2 x bodyweight
DL 2 x Bodyweight
DB Shoulder press 70% bodyweight
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Re: What Defines Someone Physically Strong In The Gym?

Postby Rab on Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:11 am

I dont get too hung up on BW multiplications. if i sdee someone pressing big dumbells in the 45 + range well then i consider them strong. If i see someone squatting 3 plates well, i consider them strong.

I never see anyone hardly doing pullups. People dont like doign them as there hard and dont want to be seen struggling to scrape 5 reps.

I dont consider someone that can do pullups to be strong. I trained with an ex heroin addict that has only just started training (spent 12 of the last 17 years in jail iirc) and has never done pullups in his puff. He managed 4 sets of between 6-8 reps. He certainly wasnt strong though.
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby kp1512 on Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:27 am

health4ni wrote:With regards to someone that can't do many pullups, then they don't have overall physical strength in the gym. Sure, they piss all over me with a 300kg deadlift at 100kg BW.

I honestly didn't realise this would be such a hard question to answer. I don't mean that flippantly. I mean that I (incorrectly) thought that people would view in as an overall strength on many "core" exercises like squat, deadlift, bench, dips, chins, pressups, overhead presses etc


disagree - BBs dont do them as they are far to heavy and doing them would probaly injure them
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Re: What Defines Someone Physically Strong In The Gym?

Postby Rab on Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:32 am

Victor Martinez does them and im sure there are a good few more of the Top Olympia line up.
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby health4ni on Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:37 pm

simon m wrote:Bench 1.5 x bodyweight
Squat 2 x bodyweight
DL 2 x Bodyweight
DB Shoulder press 70% bodyweight
Yeah, looks about right by my thinking. Cheers Si.

kp1512 wrote:
health4ni wrote:With regards to someone that can't do many pullups, then they don't have overall physical strength in the gym. Sure, they piss all over me with a 300kg deadlift at 100kg BW.


disagree - BBs dont do them as they are far to heavy and doing them would probaly injure them
Yes, weight is a factor for sure. But I don't agree with the injury part; that's just a pussy excuse.

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Rab wrote:I never see anyone hardly doing pullups. People dont like doign them as there hard and dont want to be seen struggling to scrape 5 reps.

I dont consider someone that can do pullups to be strong. I trained with an ex heroin addict that has only just started training (spent 12 of the last 17 years in jail iirc) and has never done pullups in his puff. He managed 4 sets of between 6-8 reps. He certainly wasnt strong though.
Hence me saying that I'm trying to establish an overall physical strength definition of gym exercises. So, one or two or three exercises that someone is strong at but fails badly on a few others doesn't have that overall (entire body) strength.
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Re: What Makes Someone Physically Strong?

Postby Rilla on Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:39 pm

Ader wrote:Pull ups don't impress me and not just becasue I can't do them lol, but it's always the skinny guys that can do them for reps - As soon as you put on some bulk they become too hard - I know some guys that can do a 300Kg+ deadlift at 100kg BW, but pretty sure they'd struggle to do many pull ups :)


Enter mr Rilla. Pullups is for 90kg+ people too, weighted ones as well. Most PL'ers row crazy amounts, so don't tell me they couldn't get strong at pullups if they stopped making excuses.. They probably get stronger overall forfrom it too.
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Re: What Defines Someone Physically Strong In The Gym?

Postby Craig on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:32 pm

If you have to ask if your strong then your not - I beleive thats a Dave Tate quote
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Re: What Defines Someone Physically Strong In The Gym?

Postby health4ni on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:42 pm

Yeah think he said that.

Tough question this isn't it. Got most people stumped :roll: :lol:
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Re: What Defines Someone Physically Strong In The Gym?

Postby Craig on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:44 pm

If you have to justify your numbers by comparing it to your BW...........

that ones all me :mrgreen:
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