WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

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WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby SCOTT GALTON on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:42 am

Is it worth using this pwo with whey. Or will the whey slow the digestion of the wms?
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby cleaver on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:07 am

IMO it would be a waste of the extra cash to do this. The whey would slow it down and probably defeat the purpose of taking it in the first place
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby ParaManiac on Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:18 pm

Imo,yes it's fine.

You wont notice any further benefits in recovery or gains by doing it different.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby SCOTT GALTON on Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:22 pm

If the whey slows down the wms. Would it be sensible to stick with good old cheap dextrose?
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby ParaManiac on Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:26 pm

SCOTT GALTON wrote:If the whey slows down the wms. Would it be sensible to stick with good old cheap dextrose?


Purely personal choice,and what works best for you Scott.

I don't like sugars at any time.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Craig on Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:32 pm

SCOTT GALTON wrote:If the whey slows down the wms. Would it be sensible to stick with good old cheap dextrose?



If I was dieting and in your shoes I'd use 30g glutamine PWO with the whey (but this is costly) but for sure there will be no benefit in replacing dextrose with WMS for the exact reason you gave
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby SCOTT GALTON on Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:58 pm

i might get a small amount and give it a try see if there is any difference.
Craig i need some carbs otherwise you will find me in a heap on the floor
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Alex on Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:06 pm

I'm using it post and intra just to get in some calories.

If you're dieting Scott then maybe just run some juice mixed with water or squash with a little wsm intra workout and knock back the glutamine post.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby health4ni on Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:09 pm

Alex wrote:If you're dieting Scott then maybe just run some juice mixed with water or squash with a little wsm intra workout and knock back the glutamine post.
Be careful when adding fast acting carbs before/during training. High insulin levels in the gym blunt the fat-burning process; so the higher your blood glucose is before going to the gym (or during the gym), the higher the insulin response. This applies for "dieting people" specifically. Others that aren't so interested may not need to worry.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby SCOTT GALTON on Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:14 pm

Post workout fast acting carbs get eaten up like a sponge so i think i will keep to my pwo shake but try wms instead of glucose for a little trial.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby ollie on Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:11 pm

For me the biggest benefit is the lack of bloating - speed of absorption/digetsion isn't a big worry so I just take it with whey for convenience.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Bison on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:13 pm

SCOTT GALTON wrote:If the whey slows down the wms. Would it be sensible to stick with good old cheap dextrose?

WMS is only £17.45 fpr 5kg so it's not much more expensive than dextrose...

It's much better for your teeth, zero bloating even in high doses... these reasons alone make it a much better choice than dextrose.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Tall on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:18 pm

Why are you looking at WMS and not corn flour...?

Save yourself the money. Get 1kg of Corn Flour for <£1.5 from your fave supermarket...
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Bison on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:29 pm

Tall wrote:Why are you looking at WMS and not corn flour...?

Save yourself the money. Get 1kg of Corn Flour for <£1.5 from your fave supermarket...

I've heard this a few times but never seen anyone answer that they are indeed exactly the same thing... something to do with amylopectin?
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Bison on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:32 pm

Also here's a post I came across that maybe interesting...

There seem to be a big issue about wether to include protein with WMS as it would slow down its passage through your stomach.

"the more broken-down a starch is the higher osmolality it has in a water solution. Osmolality affects the stomach in such a way that a high osmolality gives a slower rate of passage through the stomach. Besides that water is retained in the stomach longer as a high osmolality binds water to it through something called osmotic effect"

So the lower the Osmolality the BETTER!!!

Here are the OSMOLALITY figures of WMS, GATARADE and WMS with PROTEIN (WHEY and MILK)

Vitargo (WMS) in 10% solution - 24 mOsm/kg
Gatarade (or similar carb drink) - 181 mOsm/kg
Vitargo (WMS) with protein - 41 mOsm/kg

So it can clearly be seen that the addition of protein has little effect on the osmolality of waxy maize starch. The protein used was whey and milk protein at 25g per 100g. So hydrolyzed whey protein could produce a lower osmolality figure.


As you can see adding protein doesn't really change the osmolality that much :)
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Tall on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:34 pm

Bison wrote:
Tall wrote:Why are you looking at WMS and not corn flour...?

Save yourself the money. Get 1kg of Corn Flour for <£1.5 from your fave supermarket...

I've heard this a few times but never seen anyone answer that they are indeed exactly the same thing... something to do with amylopectin?


Delhi on UK-M had them tested at the lab he works at. They came out as 99.99% the same.

Delhi mentioned the name of a certain supplement supplier where he had purchased the WMS from (Hint: Not BSD...) who subsequently got the lawyers involved, and the thread had to be removed.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Bison on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:53 pm

Tall wrote:Delhi on UK-M had them tested at the lab he works at. They came out as 99.99% the same.

Delhi mentioned the name of a certain supplement supplier where he had purchased the WMS from (Hint: Not BSD...) who subsequently got the lawyers involved, and the thread had to be removed.

I don't understand what the lawyers could do about it if what he said was true? i.e. WMS is actually Cornflour??
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Tall on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:04 pm

Bison wrote:
Tall wrote:Delhi on UK-M had them tested at the lab he works at. They came out as 99.99% the same.

Delhi mentioned the name of a certain supplement supplier where he had purchased the WMS from (Hint: Not BSD...) who subsequently got the lawyers involved, and the thread had to be removed.

I don't understand what the lawyers could do about it if what he said was true? i.e. WMS is actually Cornflour??


WMS isn't cornflour. It's WMS. But at a molecular level it's 99.99% the same as corn flour.

The issue was that because a brand was mentioned rather than a generic product title, it was detrimental to said brands business and may have been construed as libel. Either way it would have been too costly to defend, so for the sake of peace with a board sponsor the thread was removed.

I'm happy in my mind that for all intents and purposes WMS = cornflour.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Marks1972 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:15 pm

Well the question i would have then, is what is the 0.01% difference that means that Tesco's sell Cornflour for £1.46 a kilo, whereas the 2 supp companies i just checked are priced the same at £5.99 a kilo?
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Tall on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:26 pm

Marks1972 wrote:Well the question i would have then, is what is the 0.01% difference that means that Tesco's sell Cornflour for £1.46 a kilo, whereas the 2 supp companies i just checked are priced the same at £5.99 a kilo?


0.01% difference? The name :D
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby health4ni on Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:19 am

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1531&p=29308&hilit=

Some highlights from that thread:

WMS = Amylose 1-5% : Amylopectin 95-99%
Cornflour = Amylose 75% : Amylopectin 25%

Amylose is the slow starch to digest.
Amylopectin is the fast one.

So you want high amylopectin. Fast through the gut and fast absorption.

---

That's assuming the %'s are correct for WMS & Cornflour.
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby Wardie on Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:33 am

I was just about the post the same thing near enough :D
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby health4ni on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:47 pm

http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271- ... 6/abstract

http://www.brinkzone.com/blog/general-b ... azy-maize/

Basically, research now shows that WMS is not absorbed fast at all. And is likely to be marketed as a slow release carb lmao

Vitargo is not WMS by the way
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby kp1512 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:54 pm

health4ni wrote:http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317%2809%2900087-6/abstract

http://www.brinkzone.com/blog/general-b ... azy-maize/

Basically, research now shows that WMS is not absorbed fast at all. And is likely to be marketed as a slow release carb lmao

Vitargo is not WMS by the way


Scott - the jury is out

The test done last month was rumoured to be on low Amylopectin WMS which would suggest it is slower acting..this was done by the Yanks and I posted it here somewhere - but on closer inspection it was apparent that not all was clear in the study.

Jury is still out though
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Re: WAXY MAIZE STARTCH

Postby health4ni on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:05 pm

^^ ok, thanks for the info
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