As most of you no I dont like training with conventional methods lol I prefer unorthodox ways that people say don't work.

I recently started doing a movement training where you increase the ROM every 1-2 sessions with a set weight.

Now as im changing to sumo stance for squat and for deadlift (deadlift is taking its time though) I was wondering today if shocking the body into using sumo stance would work.

I no you might be thinking 'what the eff is this little tit on about now' but stay with me here.


The idea behind the training im doing at the moment is to increase the ROM of a lift (primarly Deadlift and Squat as it doesnt work the same for Bench) so the body gets used to the weight. I dunno the except science behind it but i'll link it and show you guys later if you want.


My idea was that could this be done when changing stances say from Conventional to Sumo;

The first session (monday) you start 3" above // sumo stance, you work up to a heavy weight, probably 3 sets of doubles, the weight being used being your 4rm for conventional.

The next session (wednesday) you go down to 2" above // sumo stance, same as above except you do 2 sets of doubles with your 5rm.

Third session (friday) you stay at 2" above // sumo stance, using your 3rm for as many singles as you can bash out.



You have rest until wednesday of next week, working down to // at sumo stance using half of ur 1rm (conventional), which would mean basically speed work. Driving your hips through working on form, getting feed spaced out and stuff.

On the friday you do the same but you increase your stance a bit more so its wider, using same weight or maybe a bit lower, basically speed work again.

Rest again until the week after and then train as you normally would, be it 5x5, or 10x3 or what ever else you do.




Now I know you might be calling me an idiot at this point, but after doing sumo for 3 weeks (4 if u include the week rest I had) and working up to 140x2 and a deadweight of 140x1 (at comp I got 142.5 conventional) gives me the impression that it could possibly work.

Shocking the system into that stance so to speak.

Please flame me hard if you think im wrong, im gonna try it for deadlift regardless of your opinions as im always looking for the next new thing that works, but I want your opinions.


Cheers guys! of to get hair cut now.

What the **** is this little **** on about now?


...Seriously though, sounds OK to me- there is a fairly recent Waterbury article on T-nation that explains how to build your deadlift up in the same way; essentially start with your target weight high on the pins in a rack, and increase the ROM week by week until you're pulling it from the floor. Doesn't cover your ideas about shifting stance mind, but probably still worth a read in the hairdressers'.

Matt wrote:...
I recently started doing a movement training where you increase the ROM every 1-2 sessions with a set weight.

Now as im changing to sumo stance for squat and for deadlift (deadlift is taking its time though) I was wondering today if shocking the body into using sumo stance would work.

First off, Sumo stance decreases the ROM.

That being said, "shocking" the body by using variations of ROM & technique for the same general exercise (sumo stance vs hip width vs narrow etc etc) is a very good idea indeed.

Furthermore, even within the same variation of a technique such as Sumo stance you can change the ROM; as you describe. For example, I sometimes like to use a podium (4-6") Deadlifts so that the ROM is increased. Indeed, changing the grip from Clean width to Snatch width makes a difference.

So now I'm actually unsure as to what you want to hear based on what I've just said.

IMO Sumo stance dreadlifts & squats are not great compared to most other deadlift & squat stances due to the decreased ROM. BUT you are a Powerlifter right so you're training with the exercises you compete with (right?).

These so called "shock" tactics are purely & simply changes to the way you carry out a program of activity:
Set, Reps, Tempo, Load, Rest, Exercise selection, Grip width, Stance etc etc.

Everyone should pay attention to these and amend at least every 6 sessions.
And yet I bet we all see so many people in the gym doing the same exercises with the same sets (3) and same reps (10) and same weight. No wonder they don;'t make any progress.

I realise doing sumo stance does reduce the ROM but it uses more hips compared to conventional, what I ment with shock was that you shock the body into using the hips and what ever other muscles are primarly used compared to conventional.

If you understand what I mean

I've heard this called progressive movement training. It will work for squats if the high squats don't make your knees sore. For deadlifts I rack pull from the knee less weight than I pull conv so it wouldn't work for me, but if it works for you that's great.

Thanks Matty for the post. This all makes sense and I agree with you and Healthni on this.

I have deleted some of the swearing as it was unwarranted.

Matt, if possible, please improve spelling as well as your lack of care ruins an otherwise excellent post.

Simon

simon m wrote:Thanks Matty for the post. This all makes sense and I agree with you and Healthni on this.

I have deleted some of the swearing as it was unwarranted.

Matt, if possible, please improve spelling as well as your lack of care ruins an otherwise excellent post.

Simon

Thanks, I think?

Sorry about spelling and use of words, I was in a rush as I was ment to go for my haircut and wanted to post it while it was fresh in my head.

I'll take more care next time.

Thanks Matt, it's a good post!

While i agree with some parts of the post i think that any 'impression' your getting could just be because at your age you should be able to make improvements every week or two.
If you stuck with below or at // box squats then you'd probs see the same if not better results.
I've been through your journal and not once do you attempt a below or at // squat with anything like your comp PB after the comp itself. Food for thought eh?
I would go further but as you said yourself, you're gonna stop training for strength so whats the point?

Im working down, I was 2-3" above // last week, down to 1-2" this week, its // next week, then below // week after that.

And you might as well go on about strength, I might not stop training for it but its still interesting stuff.

Matt wrote:As most of you no I dont like training with conventional methods lol I prefer unorthodox ways that people say don't work.

I recently started doing a movement training where you increase the ROM every 1-2 sessions with a set weight.

Now as im changing to sumo stance for squat and for deadlift (deadlift is taking its time though) I was wondering today if shocking the body into using sumo stance would work.

I no you might be thinking 'what the eff is this little tit on about now' but stay with me here.


The idea behind the training im doing at the moment is to increase the ROM of a lift (primarly Deadlift and Squat as it doesnt work the same for Bench) so the body gets used to the weight. I dunno the except science behind it but i'll link it and show you guys later if you want.


My idea was that could this be done when changing stances say from Conventional to Sumo;

The first session (monday) you start 3" above // sumo stance, you work up to a heavy weight, probably 3 sets of doubles, the weight being used being your 4rm for conventional.

The next session (wednesday) you go down to 2" above // sumo stance, same as above except you do 2 sets of doubles with your 5rm.

Third session (friday) you stay at 2" above // sumo stance, using your 3rm for as many singles as you can bash out.



You have rest until wednesday of next week, working down to // at sumo stance using half of ur 1rm (conventional), which would mean basically speed work. Driving your hips through working on form, getting feed spaced out and stuff.

On the friday you do the same but you increase your stance a bit more so its wider, using same weight or maybe a bit lower, basically speed work again.

Rest again until the week after and then train as you normally would, be it 5x5, or 10x3 or what ever else you do.




Now I know you might be calling me an idiot at this point, but after doing sumo for 3 weeks (4 if u include the week rest I had) and working up to 140x2 and a deadweight of 140x1 (at comp I got 142.5 conventional) gives me the impression that it could possibly work.

Shocking the system into that stance so to speak.

Please flame me hard if you think im wrong, im gonna try it for deadlift regardless of your opinions as im always looking for the next new thing that works, but I want your opinions.


Cheers guys! of to get hair cut now.

Bad news. Thats fairly orthodox in PL. Speak to Bolton/Felix about their deads. Board Bench presses any one?

Good post though matt.

Wide Stance Box Squats will give carryover to Wide Stance Sumo Pulls

Matt wrote:Im working down, I was 2-3" above // last week, down to 1-2" this week, its // next week, then below // week after that.

And you might as well go on about strength, I might not stop training for it but its still interesting stuff.

Ive seen you posted this on PLUK and i completely agree with all those saying keep to the basics. SSY/gerthebear have taken the words out of my mouth.