Hi guys!

After some advice on a good training program, as I mentioned in my hello thread im old fat and been out the gym for 10+ years...

I started following the Beginning Bodybuilding program from bb.com and I feel it has helped me get some response from my muscles. So I was thinking of from today to move on to part 2 of the program which goes away from 3x full body work outs to a split program. It looks like this

Workout 1
Deadlifts (not gonna do the pyramid as stated on bb.com so will do something like 10 reps x 3)
Barbell Bent Rows
Lat Pulldowns (as I can't do Chins..yet!)
EZ Curls
Reverse Curls
Crunches

Workout 2
Bench Press (have to do this in a smith machine...)
Incline Press
Overhead Press
Dumbbell Side laterals
Lying Triceps Extensions
Crunches

Workout 3
Squats (again done in the smith machine...)
Leg Curls (not sure about this one as I haven't seen a Leg curl machine in the myriad of hammer strength machines.)
Calf Raises (again not sure about dedicated machine, would it be possible to do in smith machine?)
Crunches

So my question is does this look ok? Should I change something or can you suggest something else? Preferably I would like to have a good split that I can use with the V-diet I will be starting after I get paid at the end of this month as there is no way I could do the Waterby program outlined for the V-diet in the gym I'm going to as it's a multi station hog

Sorry for this wall of text, it's just that I feel so overwhelmed with so many programs and different views on what to do or not.

Thanks

Looks ok, Calf raises in a smith machine could be awkward but are possible. Give it a try and if you dont get on with it you can always change a few thing around.

Replace squats with overhead dumbell squats, there alot harder and involve the core alot more.

Looks like a sound push/pull/legs routine mate. I'd swap out crunches and do some different ab exercises but apart from that, looks fine. Lat pull downs are fine although, if the faciliy is there, I'd try n get up to doing chins n pull ups, once you start, the numbers go up quite quickly - do negatives(jump up and lower slowly) if you need but definately worth throwing in at the end to get used to pulling more weight.

Matt wrote:Replace squats with overhead dumbell squats, there alot harder and involve the core alot more.

Don't do this unless you are rehabing your shoulders. Cos that's all it does, unless you are training to do Olympic movements.

It's only a lot harder cos most people are crap at overhead squats. And overhead squats will do very little work for your legs, which is surely the reason for including squats in the routine, right?

Do Squats but not in a smith machine. So either do Front Squats (and clean the weight up to start) or use DBs. Front Squats require less weight and slightly more core involvement (if that's your desire). Plus Ass To Grass Front Squats are much harder than you think and so the weight won't be huge for a while. And DB Squats are a decent alternative. Both are far better than that crappy smith machine anyway; you're mess your knees up (don't care what others say, it's poo).

I prefer bb rows before deadlifts. I would go with this unless you are interested in Powerlifting

Incline press before flat pressing to work on the nice ful high chest look.. again unless its Powerlifting your into

Thanks for all the idea's guys. Well at the moment the main goal is to turn my fat arse into a leaner one. After that I wouldn't mind getting some bigger muscles out and also to improve the strength.

Once my wage goes into the account I will order some sups to get me through the Velocity Diet (using non biotest products...) which hopefully should let me shed some weight fast and then I will build from there.

I'm very grateful for all your idea's and inputs, so a big thanks to all of you!

I wrote this program on someone elses journal ealier who had a very similar looking plan to yours which i tried to keep my modified version very similar to.. Any questions on it just ask mate


3 day split
*On exercises where low amount of reps are used, make sure to do 2-4 warm up sets depending on how much you are lifting on working sets) (warm up should not be tiring e.g 8 reps on very light weight, then 5 , then 3 on progressively heavier weights, use weights that will not affect performance on working sets)

Workout 1
Decline DB press 5 reps 4 sets
Seated DB shoulder press 6-8 x 3
Incline DB press 8-10 x 3
Dips 12-15 x 2

Workout 2
Squat 5 reps 6 sets
Deadlift 5 x 4
Seated Calf raises 10 x 4
Standing calf raises 20 x 2

Workout 3
Goodmornings 5 reps 5 sets
Yates row 5 x 5
Seated cable rows 8 x 4
Chin-ups/Lat pulldown 8-10 x 4
Ab cable crunches (use the rope attachment) 20 x 3

Interesting stuff Ash will have to look up some of those exercises as I'm not sure what they are

Also the gym doesn't have an incline bench unless i raise the bench to like 1 or 2 and jump on it backwards not sure if that would work or not.

Thanks

ash fletcher wrote:...and all types of hypertrophy (myofbrillar, sarcoplasmic etc)

holy shit! You can actually dictate the type of hypertrophy your body does? lmao

Rab wrote:I prefer bb rows before deadlifts. I would go with this unless you are interested in Powerlifting

For a beginner I would recommend deadlifting first. It places more demand on the CNS so should be first. Although for the more advanced BB'er it can be placed anywhere.

health4ni wrote:

ash fletcher wrote:...and all types of hypertrophy (myofbrillar, sarcoplasmic etc)

holy shit! You can actually dictate the type of hypertrophy your body does? lmao

You can to some degree..

SO in your books i assume there is no point of rep ranges and volume? And no such thing as irrational hypertrophy?

I haven't written any books (yet).

Of course reps, sets & rest for that matter are important.

Talking about myofbrillar & sarcoplasmic hypertrophy types is not relevant for this thread... certainly not those terms. Use 'strength' or (traditional) 'hypertrophy' terms, cos not many people will understand wtf myofbrillar & sarcoplasmic relate to.

And don't for a second think both don't happen no matter how many reps you perform. It's not a cut-off. It's a continuum, along which depending on the Time Under Tension will dictate greater myofbrillar or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

health4ni wrote:I haven't written any books (yet).

Of course reps, sets & rest for that matter are important.

Talking about myofbrillar & sarcoplasmic hypertrophy types is not relevant for this thread... certainly not those terms. Use 'strength' or (traditional) 'hypertrophy' terms, cos not many people will understand wtf myofbrillar & sarcoplasmic relate to.

And don't for a second think both don't happen no matter how many reps you perform. It's not a cut-off. It's a continuum, along which depending on the Time Under Tension will dictate greater myofbrillar or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

Yes, I have to admit i don't know why i wrote it like, what I was trying to get across that i think the program is well rounded.
Obviously their is no cut off point, but are rep ranges etc that are generally more associated with optimising each type of hypertrophy even though it is hard to definp.s i have removed the reference as can appreciate people starting out will find that confusing.

ash fletcher wrote:Obviously their is no cut off point, but are rep ranges etc that are generally more associated with optimising each type of hypertrophy even though it is hard to definp.s i have removed the reference as can appreciate people starting out will find that confusing.

It's not your fault as that's what you've read, but that is just plainly wrong.

An example:
Set 1. BB Bench Press: 100kg : 2reps : 2secs to lower : 1sec to lift. Time Under Tension (TUT) = 6secs
Set 2a. BB Bench Press: 100kg : 2reps : 17secs to lower : 1sec to lift. Time Under Tension = 36secs

Under the "rules" of myofbrillar & sarcoplasmic hypertrophy in the literature, both exercise sets will be more myofbrillar hypertrophy related. But that is plainly wrong, since Set 2 takes 36 seconds...

similar to as if Set 2 was this:
Set 2b. BB Bench Press: 100kg : 12reps : 2secs to lower : 1sec to lift. Time Under Tension = 36secs

And now according to the "rules" Set 2 is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy whereas before it wasn't.

It's the number of reps for a given TUT that dictates the training effect.

health4ni wrote:

ash fletcher wrote:Obviously their is no cut off point, but are rep ranges etc that are generally more associated with optimising each type of hypertrophy even though it is hard to definp.s i have removed the reference as can appreciate people starting out will find that confusing.

It's not your fault as that's what you've read, but that is just plainly wrong.

An example:
Set 1. BB Bench Press: 100kg : 2reps : 2secs to lower : 1sec to lift. Time Under Tension (TUT) = 6secs
Set 2a. BB Bench Press: 100kg : 2reps : 17secs to lower : 1sec to lift. Time Under Tension = 36secs

Under the "rules" of myofbrillar & sarcoplasmic hypertrophy in the literature, both exercise sets will be more myofbrillar hypertrophy related. But that is plainly wrong, since Set 2 takes 36 seconds...

similar to as if Set 2 was this:
Set 2b. BB Bench Press: 100kg : 12reps : 2secs to lower : 1sec to lift. Time Under Tension = 36secs

And now according to the "rules" Set 2 is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy whereas before it wasn't.

It's the number of reps for a given TUT that dictates the training effect.

Cheers for the write up mate, i was quite aware of most of thsat though, problem is with me because i've never used any t-u-t techniques I've never bothered putting that into the equation, but as you've pointed out it is actually rather important isn't it lol.
Getting petty here but I would say set 1 is more neuromusclar conditioning if anything?

Anyways you definetly a very knowlegable guy, maybe KP could set up a 'scientific/advanced forum' where we can discuss stuff like this without hijacking peoples threads! haha

ash fletcher wrote:maybe KP could set up a 'scientific/advanced forum' where we can discuss stuff like this without hijacking peoples threads! haha

Exercise Kinesiology and Research

health4ni wrote:

ash fletcher wrote:maybe KP could set up a 'scientific/advanced forum' where we can discuss stuff like this without hijacking peoples threads! haha

Exercise Kinesiology and Research

LMAO how in gods name did i flipppiinnnnnn miss that one! LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL