Things you have learnt - then and now

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Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby kp1512 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:39 pm

So what have you learnt over the years in terms of results and diet

This is from the first year you was training to now

Putting all the myths aside, but the things you tried and worked for you.

Mine


- You dont need carbs outside of pre and post workout if using HIT based systems
- For me- high protein diets have given me fat better gains for recovery and growth
- Using a mix of low reps and high reps works best for ANY bodypart
- changing things every 4-6 weeks works wonders
- whether I drink my cals or eat them - I get the same gains [caveat as below]
- Protein from Cod doesnt bloat me and seems to work really well for me
- Whether I use a gatorade or WMS or Dextrose - I seem to get the same recovery PWO
- Any pressing movements always seem to pack on size to my arms and triceps more so tan direct work
- Na RALA or R ALA is your best friend if dieting
- Legs respond far better to explosive squats then slow controlled

Im sure theres more
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby Craig on Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:14 pm

Pre workout carbs > post workout carbs
If you want to be good at a certain lift then do it reguarly (once a week won't cut it)
I can eat pretty much anything and stay lean as long as its not gluten
post workout carbs just make you fat if you train in the evening
If you don't get enough sleep then you'll crash about mid day whatever you eat
A healthy digestive system is key to making good gains
Most people who aren't lean eat too many carbs from dubious sources
Most people who are skinny don't eat as much as they think

think that covers it.
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby simon m on Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:31 pm

If you have a pain in your shoulder, stop training heavy, you cannot blast through an injury.
High protein in the morning, pre workout wonders for gains, but post workout I don't bother now.
Fish oils for breakfast, can't beat them.
Supersets for chest and arms are great, but don't work for back in my experience.
Good form with a bit of swing to get the last rep or so beats ultra heavy, low rep work for muslce gains.
HIT is impossible at my age!
Have YOU kissed your guns today?!
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby Ader on Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Craig wrote:If you want to be good at a certain lift then do it reguarly (once a week won't cut it)
I'll second that - But be careful not to overdo it - maybe 3 times a week at most - more than that and you'll overtrain
____________________________________________________________________________
Don’t let the sets last much longer than ten seconds, total. Kinda like sex with a hot chick, hit it hard for ten seconds.
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby Ader on Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:56 pm

came across this and it pretty much sums it up:

A Very Brief A-Z of Weight Training
By Chris Young


Exercise Selection
The amount of exercises you do depends on how often you train (frequency),
and how hard you train (intensity), but whatever you are training for your
programme should include a squat, a push, and a pull.

Squat Type Movements
You can choose from the following; squats, box squat (of various heights),
bottom up squats with the bar set on a pin, paused squats, front squat both
Olympic and bodybuilder style, Zercher Squats, hack squats, deadlifts, sumo
deadlifts, pin pulls (deadlifting from different heights), snatch grip deadlifts,
Steinborn lift, and prisoner squats.

Pushing Movements
You can choose from the following; barbell (BB) bench press, dumbbell (DB)
bench press, BB or DB incline or decline press, dips, board, pin or carpet
presses, bottom up benches, paused benches, various overhead lifts such as
military presses, behind the neck presses, Bradford presses, 2xDB press, Arnold
press, W press, one arm press with either DB or BB, push press, jerk, side press,
or bent press.

Pulling Movements
You can choose from the following; chin ups, pull ups, pulldowns to front or back,
long pulley rows, BB rows, reverse grip rows, chest supported rows, DB rows,
one arm row, power clean, full clean, hang clean, full snatch, hang snatch, power
snatch, DB snatch, DB swing, face pulls (seriously there is an exercise called
this), and straight arm pulls.

And if you have the time
The next exercises selected would be for the mid-section especially if you’re a
beginner; this is because the weight used for the squat would not be enough to
overload the mid-section whereas with an advanced trainer it could be. A good
combination of exercises would be the stiff leg or Romanian Deadlift and a type
of leg raise, plank, or pseudo plank type of exercise. In my opinion only when
these 5 core exercises are performed would a trainer then perhaps do some
direct arm work afterward.

To emphasize this point John McCallum wrote of observing 50’s bodybuilding
champion and film star Reg Park train; his workout consisted of squats –several
sets with up to 500 lbs for 15 reps on the last set, bench presses –as with the
squats but up to 400 lbs for 12 reps, same for BB rows 350 lbs for 12 reps,
standing press behind neck 300lbs for 12 reps, weighted chins with 50 lbs for 12
reps, and weighted sit ups 50 lbs for 12 reps. As he headed for the shower a
young observer said what about your arms? Park smiled and said “done them
already”.

The point is that Reg Park understood that the body works in movement patterns
not on isolating the individual muscles, get strong on these movement patterns
and you will get strong, lose fat, increase muscle mass, whatever your goals are,
it’s really that simple.

Another example would be the great Paul Anderson, 1956 Olympic Heavyweight
Weightlifting Champion. Anderson is recognised by many as one of the strongest
men who ever lived. His early training was pretty much Squats and Presses; the
pull came from having to Clean the weight he was about to press.
By concentrating on these 2 or 3 exercises, if you include the Clean, Anderson
quickly progressed to world record levels.

Please feel free to contact me if you’re unsure of any of these lifts but do try
google first!

Sets
A collection of repetitions usually performed consecutively.

For Power/Strength
In general sets would range from 3-10 sets per exercise and 20-30 sets per
workout.

For Muscle Building
Typically 2-5 sets would be performed per exercise with usually no more than 25-
30 sets performed in any one workout.
There are those who would do considerably less than this, say 1-2 sets per
exercise and no more than 8 sets per workout; this is the so called high intensity
training protocol (HIT); this can work for short periods of time although in my
opinion it is not as effective as higher volume training (>20 sets per workout).

For Muscular Endurance
Why anyone would want to train for this I have no idea but if you did you would
perform 2-4 sets per exercise and 12-16 per workout.

Reps
The amount for lifts performed within a set.

For Power/Strength
For this goal reps would be between 1 and 6.

For Muscle Building
This varies greatly but in general reps would be between 5 and 15, although one
of the best muscle building routines ever is the 20 rep squat programme; but in
general the total time under tension (length of set) should be less than 60
seconds.

For Muscular Endurance
For this reps would be between 15 all the way up to 50 or more.

Rest
Believe it or not rest between sets doesn’t depend on how long the article that
you’re reading is in the daily newspaper.

For Power/Strength
Rest times can vary from as little as 1 minute all the way up to 10 minutes. In
general the higher the intensity (%age of max effort) the longer the rest period.

For Muscle Building
Rest could be as little as 30 seconds but not normally more than 2 minutes as
the aim is to exhaust the muscle.

For Muscular Endurance
Rest times can vary from 15 seconds up to 1 minute.

Frequency
This is defined as the amount of workouts performed in a certain time frame,
usually a week.

For Power/Strength
From as little as 2 sessions a week right up to 50! Yes 50; the amazingly
successful Bulgarian weightlifting team has athletes that train 50 times a week
and sometimes more before competitions; they do this not for enjoyment but
because it works! And a trainer once told you that 3 times a week was optimal!

The moral is be careful who you listen to.

If very high frequency (>6 sessions a week) is going to be used then each
session must be planned, you can’t lift maximal weights for 50 times a week but
you can perform exercises that contribute to the overall goal.

For Muscle Building
From 2 to 12 workouts a week. One of Arnold Swartzenegger’s favourite
programmes was training 6 days a week, each day performing 2 workouts,
although the was receiving pharmaceutical help.

For Muscular Endurance
Usually 2-6 workouts a week; time would usually be spent on the particular sport
that one is trying to improve.

Weight
The weight lifted should be determined by the amount of reps and sets that
you’re doing; if you can perform 3 sets of 10 reps in a given exercise then the
weight should increase for the next workout. Obviously you would use more
weight following a 5x5 programme than you would on a 3x12 programme. The
important thing here is that whatever sets and reps you use you should always
strive to increase the weight used.

For Power/Strength
The weight used would normally be 70-100+% 1RM (Max weight for 1 rep).

For Muscle Building
For most people most the time the weight used would be between 60-100%
1RM, it is important to work both ends of this spectrum at certain times to
develop maximal muscle.

For Muscular Endurance
30-60% 1RM would be used for this goal.

Using Weight Training for Fat Loss
For optimal fat loss I recommend 2 different tri-sets comprised of the following;
• Tri-set 1, a quad dominant lower body exercise immediately followed by
an upper body push immediately followed by a mid section exercise for
the obliques, either twisting or side flexion. Perform 3-5 sets of 10, 15, or
20 reps with 120 seconds rest between each tri-set.
• Tri-set 2, a hip dominant lower body exercise immediately followed by an
upper body pull immediately followed by a mid section flexion exercise.
Again, perform 3-5 sets of 10, 15, or 20 reps with 120 seconds rest
between each tri-set.

With beginners I would precede this with 5 sets of 5 reps in the Box Squat. When
the trainee can use 80kg (men) or 60kg (women) I would then include Box
Squats in the quad dominant, lower body exercises which could be performed in
the first tri-set; in fact I would recommend it for at least one third of the workouts
performed.

The reason that I strive to get clients strong in the Box Squat before using it as a
fat burning exercise is that if the client is only strong enough to use 20kg for 15
reps then other exercises such as Step Ups and Lunges probably have a higher
metabolic demand but once the trainee gets to a certain level, about 80kg for
men or 60kg for women, then the Squat will work wonders.

Putting it all together
One of the major mistakes I see is that trainees follow a good programme but for
too long; pretty much anything will work for 6-12 weeks but not even the greatest
programme ever written will last much longer than this. The message here is that
if you’ve been on the same programme for more than 12 weeks or the weights
you’re using have stalled (not increased in the last few workouts) then you need
to change something.

Albert Einstein once said that the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing
over and over again and expecting a different result. Don’t be a moron in the
gym!
____________________________________________________________________________
Don’t let the sets last much longer than ten seconds, total. Kinda like sex with a hot chick, hit it hard for ten seconds.
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby RoB on Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:19 pm

Healthy digestive system is imperative!
Insulin sensitivity is the key!
Vitamin D is amazing.
Everything works for a while.
Staying lean is hard.
Too much protein is unnecessary, excess protein is just expensive glucose.
PWO nutrition doesn't do anything for me.
Vegetables > Fruits
Consistency is the key
Stay away from 1 rep maxes, carefully manage Intensity and deload often otherwise i burn out and get ill, and i'll be back to square one. THIS is the most important thing i've learnt this year.
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby Craig on Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:39 pm

RoB wrote:Healthy digestive system is imperative!
Insulin sensitivity is the key!
Vitamin D is amazing.
Everything works for a while.
Staying lean is hard.
Too much protein is unnecessary, excess protein is just expensive glucose.
PWO nutrition doesn't do anything for me.
Vegetables > Fruits
Consistency is the key
Stay away from 1 rep maxes, carefully manage Intensity and deload often otherwise i burn out and get ill, and i'll be back to square one. THIS is the most important thing i've learnt this year.



*2 on vitamin D!

we'll have to have another pre workout nutrition thread, pre workout nutrition is the new PWO nutrition :D
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby kp1512 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:53 pm

^^id agree- why and what do you take pre workout as part of the old PWO nutrition?
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby Rilla on Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:58 pm

kp1512 wrote:^^id agree- why and what do you take pre workout as part of the old PWO nutrition?


New thread, eh?
Big Choppa wrote:Rab's face probably scares the bar up. Explains his Shit deadlift as well cause the wants to stay away from his deformed bonce.
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby ollie on Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:19 pm

Craig wrote:
RoB wrote:Healthy digestive system is imperative!
Insulin sensitivity is the key!
Vitamin D is amazing.
Everything works for a while.
Staying lean is hard.
Too much protein is unnecessary, excess protein is just expensive glucose.
PWO nutrition doesn't do anything for me.
Vegetables > Fruits
Consistency is the key
Stay away from 1 rep maxes, carefully manage Intensity and deload often otherwise i burn out and get ill, and i'll be back to square one. THIS is the most important thing i've learnt this year.



*2 on vitamin D!

we'll have to have another pre workout nutrition thread, pre workout nutrition is the new PWO nutrition :D


Agree with everything Rob says really. I still need something PWO, although I only use 10g of WMS for carbs these days.

Never had the final problem - I reckon I can take a fair bit of volume/intensity before I get ill. It's definitely important to manage both though as overdoing things is definitely responsible for my elbow trouble. Once you're injured, you're going to be held back until you recover, and doing so might mean losing what you've gained.
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby Dtlv74 on Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:29 am

don't eat enough - don't gain!
eat a mostly clean diet
protein doesn't have to be very high but should never be very low
ensuring good intake of omega 3 is vital
carb cycling and looking to be nutrient partitioning friendly will keep your gains lean when in calorie surplus
eating big in the morning and before training is better than eating more later in the day
lots of fruit & fresh veg noticably improves health/feeling of wellbeing
pre workout protein is vital

increasing volume (sets/reps) is best for hypertrophy
increasing load is best for strength gains
complex training mixed with cardio and plyometrics is the best way to improve fitness/conditioning
periodised routines/ changing things every six-eight weeks ensures better longterm progress
at the start of a routine, and during deload periods/short time off between routines is when i grow the most
frequently working a bodypart with just a few sets works better for me than bigger less frequent sessions
explosive concentrics and comfortable pace negatives are normally the best tempo

dips are the best chest exercise
pullups & chins the best back exercise
direct trap work through olympic style lifts improves back size and strength and also body posture considerably
working the core directly with resistance improves squat and deadlift strength
alternating sets of two exercises for antagonist bodyparts allows more overall intensity
lower body needs to be trained with as much volume as upper body - half of all sets should be lower body

don't be consistent, don't progress, eventually go backwards
re-gaining is a lot easier than gaining in the first place
is always possible to improve
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Re: Things you have learnt - then and now

Postby GymBunny on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:06 am

  • Train legs!
  • Explosive training
  • Mix training up, body part splits only work for me if I am doing other things like cycling/climbing/swimming
  • incorporate plyometrics, low intensity cardio, HIIT
  • More is not necessarily better. I do well on shorter, higher intensity training with timed rests
  • Carbs are not the enemy I do actually need to eat them. Pre WO > PWO
  • Vitamin D is extremely underrated
  • Consistency is key

I'm sure there are more

EDIT: Fish oil FTW! For women 0.1g per lb BW or 10-15g seems to have most benefits.
Mens sana in corpore sano
Never look back with regrets and think "what if" for that way madness lies. There are those that will envy you and try and undermine you. They are not worth your time.
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