What do you guys make of the yin-yang concept with foods? I find it really fascinating and also believe in it as I have too much yang energy (my acupuncturist told me) and yang foods make me feel worse while yin earthy foods such as raw veg, fruits n nuts n seeds make me feel earthed out and very chilled. I had stake meal today after my workout and all day at work I was hot headed and pissed off with everything. Meat is very yang, specially red meats like beef. My recovery was also hindered as I noticed more cracking painful joints and stiff muscles. Beef is probably not he best first meal after a workout but I did have an apple as my post workout recovery snack. Also felt bloated all day like my digestion was slower than normal. I think if I'm going to eat meat I'll do it not very often and only eat white meats and fish, these don't seem as bad for me.

Does everyone or anyone understand the yin-yang concept with foods and life on this board well?

Alkaline ashing diets are very popular on here with afew members. Yin/Yang seems to be a spin on it or maybe a source.

Just seems to be people attaching spirituality to food which IMO is wholly misplaced. What makes a food more ying then yang? Is it a measurable property of the food like acidity, if so then why not just say that food is more acidic or that food is alkaline. Instead of attaching some spiritual nonsense like ying and yang to it!

RoB wrote:Just seems to be people attaching spirituality to food which IMO is wholly misplaced. What makes a food more ying then yang? Is it a measurable property of the food like acidity, if so then why not just say that food is more acidic or that food is alkaline. Instead of attaching some spiritual nonsense like ying and yang to it!

Hahahaha lmao, you people just don't get it! What the hell is spiritual about yin-yang, huh? Why, why, why do people try to insist that this concept is spiritual? Its a science and has nothing to do with spirituality, in fact quite the very opposite. "Yin yang is spiritual nonsense", how can you say that? You clearly have no idea about the concept! Why not do some research on it rather than dismissing this very valid science as spiritual babble?

Sorry to sound like I'm flaming but its so annoying when you get these ignorant people that if don't understand something that's out of the norm to the western "science" (yes the wests 50 years on the human brain is so incredible that they still know jack shit abut how it works, its all pseudoscience) they refer to it as being spiritual. I'd trust 5000 year of human scientific practice over a western brain surgeon any day.

RoB wrote:What makes a food more ying then yang?

Since you asked, yin food is cooling food from the earth in it its most natural state, yang is food that heats the body up like meats, spices.

Do you need me to explain the yin yang concept to you in simple terms?

Oggy

As a founder and moderator of this forum I find you last post to be overly aggressive.

I suggest you apologise then you may wish to explain what you mean by Yin and Yang in the context of food and how this relates to diet and training and once you have put some effort into your post, perhaps the members on here might show you the courtesy you have failed to show yourself.

so do people from the east not have alzheimers or lbd or pdd then?

i'd go with what the west have to offer even it is pharmaceutical based, personally i would like to see and review the evidence of how cutting a tigers paw off can improve virility......sharks fins......need i go on

mindless killing of sublime animals for what exactly

@oggy: would be good for you to explain your understanding of ying/yang foods. Use some examples too.

Also, sounds like your body just does not get on at all with yang (yes, probably more acidic) foods. Do you know what blood type you are? My guess is Type A (but I bet I'm wrong! lol).

@RoB: the yin/yang concept of food has nothing to do with the acid-alkaline balance. However, there are similarities between the two concepts.

Everyone is passionate about what they believe in and one of the things that makes this forum so good is that people can have intelligent debate, but as Simon says, lets have no flaming.

As health says, it sounds like there are some cross overs between the whole alkaline/acid thing and the ying/yang concept. Health posted a link (In the alkalising thread I think) to a list of acid vs alkaline foods. Would be very interesting if you have a corresponding on for the ying/yang foods.

While I remain unconvinced about the whole alkalising thing, I do support the premise that supports a more balanced diet, and frankly one of the things I have always thought about BBing is the fact the vegetable intake always seems low.

I do not think the blood type diet works, as I am A- but if I do not get a decent supply of meat in my diet I come anaemic, energyless (is that even a word ) and short tempered and irritable.

I suspect that many people feel considerably better on these kind of diets because their diet was not balanced before.

GymBunny wrote:While I remain unconvinced about the whole alkalising thing, I do support the premise that supports a more balanced diet, and frankly one of the things I have always thought about BBing is the fact the vegetable intake always seems low.

I do not think the blood type diet works, as I am A- but if I do not get a decent supply of meat in my diet I come anaemic, energyless (is that even a word ) and short tempered and irritable.

I suspect that many people feel considerably better on these kind of diets because their diet was not balanced before.

That is exactly my view of diets.

So many people have awful diets, then get into fitness and clean up their food intake and think that diet x, y, z was the magic ingredient for their success, when the fact is that they lacked sufficient nutrients originally.

Anyway, let's have some more info on your diet Oggy as this will be of interest to many on here.

julesm wrote:so do people from the east not have alzheimers or lbd or pdd then?

i'd go with what the west have to offer even it is pharmaceutical based, personally i would like to see and review the evidence of how cutting a tigers paw off can improve virility......sharks fins......need i go on

mindless killing of sublime animals for what exactly

You've hit a good point there jules, it's things like this that westerners see and leads them to immediately dismiss a lot of the easts beliefs in this subject.

I believe there's definately something in it all somewhere but there's also a hell of a lot of BS.... Would make a very interesting thread that's for sure.

Bison wrote:

julesm wrote:so do people from the east not have alzheimers or lbd or pdd then?

i'd go with what the west have to offer even it is pharmaceutical based, personally i would like to see and review the evidence of how cutting a tigers paw off can improve virility......sharks fins......need i go on

mindless killing of sublime animals for what exactly

You've hit a good point there jules, it's things like this that westerners see and leads them to immediately dismiss a lot of the easts beliefs in this subject.

I believe there's definately something in it all somewhere but there's also a hell of a lot of BS.... Would make a very interesting thread that's for sure.

Examples

India and China

I laughed last time I heard some of the stuff I saw in India in the remote parts for treatment - but I couldnt knock it as it worked. Some based on ayurvedic concepts etc. China has the same thing in remote parts and even in the city - but they work.

I do beleive that for diseases we have treatments on earth in natural forms unless they have been designed by man - but thats a whole new topic.

First, sorry for sounding a bit aggressive in my reply, I did have a "bad" day (or yang day) yesterday. I've had these debates on other forums and people are just too quick to dismiss this science as spiritual nonsense.

Gymbunny, that's a sign of being yang deficient. My acupuncturist is the same, he thrives on meat as he has too much yin and not enough yang. Are you generally a cold person? I've always been a hot person so cooling yin foods make me thrive. Maybe you can have some of my aggressive male yang for exchange of your female yin.

Its nothing to do with PH balance though it is funny that the west also is now just learning about "balance". Yes yin-yang is just about balance between 2 opposites that's found in everything, you could say that alkaline is yin while acidic is yang but this is not part of their science as its more to do with the cooling effect of the foods rather than the PH. As even acidifying fruits are yin as its more to do with it being earthing cooling food, but as soon as you process this food or cook it it starts to turn yang. Spices are yang even though its an earth food it warms the body up.

Yin is the energy that flows from the earth up your legs on your inside (yin-side) to your head then down your arms. Yang is the energy that flows from the sun up your hands/arms to your head then down your body and back to the ground. Its in a constant never starting/ending cycle.

I have a blockage in my liver, the liver is the main organ and if its out of balance it throws all the other organs out of balance, funny that's the same in the west too as the liver is the most important organ hence the name LIVEr. I keep finding links with this yin yang concept in western science, be it PH balance, hot-cold, red blood cells-white blood cells, (oh the Chinese discovered the 2 different blood types 2000 years before the west, funny that isn't it?) positive-negative, male-female etc etc its in everything. Balance is is the key to optimum health and there's no doubt about that.

I think the reason I'm more sensitive to yang foods is that drugs use up your yin energy, the female energy from the mother earth, its the feel good energy, spiritual or not to me feeling good is spiritual in itself.

I could make this post 5 times as long but I don't want to bore you guys out with this, there is so so so much more to it than this but I best keep it simple for now. One thing we can all agree on here is balance is the key to health a vitality! But we are all different so if your yang deficient then meat will make you feel more balanced, just don't over do it!

Hope this clears some thigs up.

See to me that seems like a lot of spiritualist blah blah and not a science. What is this energy "that flows from the earth up your legs on your inside" you say it exists but how are you measuring it? how do you know it exists? Because without showing me some conclusive evidence of it, it sounds just like some sort of religion. All i'm trying to say is i'm sure there is something to the yin/yang concept, but i very much doubt it has anything to do with all this energy malarky, and is no doubt down to some physical property of the food.

I wouldn't dismiss western medicine out of hand either, the chinese may have known that there are differn't types of blood cell but they sure as hell didn't know what they where. When you need a triple heart bypass, brain surgery or you've been stabbed i'd like to see what eastern medicine can do for you.

Ok, I just PMSL again!!! Damn I have to go to work so I don't have time to reply to that ignorant post. I'll be back.

I dont see how its ignorant!? Just because i don't believe in what you say without evidence doesn't mean i'm not open minded. Claiming people are ignorant or closed minded is usually a cover for people who actually ignorant of the truth themselves.

I would not use the word ignorant, especially when one is talking about a concept that has little in the way of real word science behind it.

However, always good to have a different set of views!

Not something you can truely quantify as this is more based on (spiritual and health) well being. The healthy well being is easy to accept as you can either feel good within yourself or not. Some will say that health and spiritual well being come hand in hand but then this depends on whether you personally believe in spiritual energy in the first place.

Otherwise it may be easier to take the stance that spritual energy is like your well being thus making it a little easier to understand.

Rob, Oggy has replied with a fuller post beginning to explain the theory behind Yin/Yang, please extend the same consideration back without flaming.

Debate is good people, but I have PMT so don't annoy me today.

Oggy, interesting concept. I used to be very cold all the time when a vegetarian many years ago but I've put on a shed load of muscle and am now one of these irritating people who walks around in a t-shirt when others are shivering in their coats.

I think Alex has made a key point. The power of the mind must not be underestimated and it is possible to think yourself into a different state. NLP is particularly interesting in this regard. Whilst I am very much for an empirical quantitative approach to life I recognise that mental balance is key.

Oggy you won't bore us. I'm interested to hear what else you have on the subject.

There's some real good stuff in Chinese Medicine & Ayurveda. A lot that Western Medicine can learn from imo.

If you combined the expertise of Western Medicine with treating emergencies with the proactiveness of the Chinese Medicine & Ayurveda systems you'd have one kick ass health service. And a lot more healthy people.

health4ni wrote:There's some real good stuff in Chinese Medicine & Ayurveda. A lot that Western Medicine can learn from imo.

If you combined the expertise of Western Medicine with treating emergencies with the proactiveness of the Chinese Medicine & Ayurveda systems you'd have one kick ass health service. And a lot more healthy people.

Chinese life expectancy has risen in proportion with Chinese State spending on medicine and health service, not mumbo jumbo "Chinese medicine" cures. Before the health service came into being life expectancy in China was less than 40 years, so bollocks to Chinese medicine and hurrah to science and drugs!

simon m wrote:

health4ni wrote:There's some real good stuff in Chinese Medicine & Ayurveda. A lot that Western Medicine can learn from imo.

If you combined the expertise of Western Medicine with treating emergencies with the proactiveness of the Chinese Medicine & Ayurveda systems you'd have one kick ass health service. And a lot more healthy people.

Chinese life expectancy has risen in proportion with Chinese State spending on medicine and health service, not mumbo jumbo "Chinese medicine" cures. Before the health service came into being life expectancy in China was less than 40 years, so bollocks to Chinese medicine and hurrah to science and drugs!

Are you sure about this ?

China has the lowest cancer rates, heart diseases and numerous other conditions in the world.

The life expectancy figures may also be diluted by sanitation and poor standard of living as opposed to actually death by disease?

kp1512 wrote:

simon m wrote:

health4ni wrote:There's some real good stuff in Chinese Medicine & Ayurveda. A lot that Western Medicine can learn from imo.

If you combined the expertise of Western Medicine with treating emergencies with the proactiveness of the Chinese Medicine & Ayurveda systems you'd have one kick ass health service. And a lot more healthy people.

Chinese life expectancy has risen in proportion with Chinese State spending on medicine and health service, not mumbo jumbo "Chinese medicine" cures. Before the health service came into being life expectancy in China was less than 40 years, so bollocks to Chinese medicine and hurrah to science and drugs!

Are you sure about this ?

China has the lowest cancer rates, heart diseases and numerous other conditions in the world.

The life expectancy figures may also be diluted by sanitation and poor standard of living as opposed to actually death by disease?

Cancers and heart disease generally occur in older people, so one has to be fit to die from these, therefoe you cannot have any meaningful statistics on such disease and causes of death if your general population pops it's clogs before the age of 40 as the Chinese did before 1950.

The question of sanitation is ofcourse important and no doubt this is improving as China improves it's infastrucutre but as the Country spends above 5% of it's GWP on healthcare and people are now living to over 70 on average, you cannot ignore the fact that inoculations, drugs etc., are the main reason for this increase as thousands of years of "chinese medicine" didn't keep the fuckers alive for long!

Cancers and heart disease generally occur in older people, so one has to be fit to die from these, therefoe you cannot have any meaningful statistics on such disease and causes of death if your general population pops it's clogs before the age of 40 as the Chinese did before 1950.

The question of sanitation is ofcourse important and no doubt this is improving as China improves it's infastrucutre but as the Country spends above 5% of it's GWP on healthcare and people are now living to over 70 on average, you cannot ignore the fact that inoculations, drugs etc., are the main reason for this increase as thousands of years of "chinese medicine" didn't keep the fuckers alive for long!

Simon

The stats you refer to are flawed as not even China had a count of there death rates and it was all indicative but clearly miles out; and the WHO, UN et al didnt even have access inside China. Additionaly - China has a very severe issue with the number of people over 60 now - ie there are too many. This also blows the notion that back then it was 35 or whatever.

Even if we take into account development a very significant part of china still lives in poverty and there life expectancy is well over 70 now if you refer to both UN, China and WHO stats.

This to me says that even with development and health care - the large % dont even recieve it - they are living well past western figures.

RoB wrote:See to me that seems like a lot of spiritualist blah blah and not a science. What is this energy "that flows from the earth up your legs on your inside" you say it exists but how are you measuring it? how do you know it exists? Because without showing me some conclusive evidence of it, it sounds just like some sort of religion. All i'm trying to say is i'm sure there is something to the yin/yang concept, but i very much doubt it has anything to do with all this energy malarky, and is no doubt down to some physical property of the food.

Sorry its just the way you say "spiritualist blah blah and not a science". First of, its not a superstition like religion. Superstition is seen as an illness in Chinese medicine so when you say "it sounds just like some sort of religion". I find that quite ignorant as Chinese medicine IS NOT RELIGION.

RoB wrote:What is this energy "that flows from the earth up your legs on your inside" you say it exists but how are you measuring it? how do you know it exists?

The energy is called Chi or Qi, its what governs everything in existence, especially the universe. How do you measure space? We know that it exists but we can't measure it? Chi or Qi can't be measured, yet. How do we know that schizophrenia exists? There's no blood test to measure whether it exist or not but we know it exists. What about depression? Nope, no way of measuring depression but yet we know that it exists as people suffer from depression, there is no REAL evidence that its caused by the lack of serotonin. Yes it hypothisized through scientific facts but these can not be proven, now that's a fact lol. Enough yet? I can go on if you like?

RoB wrote:I wouldn't dismiss western medicine out of hand either, the chinese may have known that there are differn't types of blood cell but they sure as hell didn't know what they where. When you need a triple heart bypass, brain surgery or you've been stabbed i'd like to see what eastern medicine can do for you.

Errmm, sorry but your very wrong, the Chinese were doing major heart surgery 2000 years before the west, so.... suck on that lol.

Sorry, its late and I'm sleepy but that's all for now. Night night.

Schizophrenia can be observed though, MRI scans can show the fundamental differences in brain function of a schizophrenic. Depression can be observed as a characteristic even if the cause is currently unknown. The laws of physics can be theorized and proven and undergo the rigour of scientific scrutiny. Is there a unifying law of Chi and Qi ? name one example in which these energies have been objectively observed? I'm not trying to belittle your beliefs but that is what they seem to be 'beliefs' and not science as I understand the definition.

Come on, you can't honestly believe the Chinese 2000 years ago would be able to stand up against western medicine when it comes to things like surgery. Major heart surgery without transfusions? transplants? removal of tumours. I see we are no doubt going to have to agree to disagree though.