Test boosters for natties

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Test boosters for natties

Postby cleaver on Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:16 pm

It was mentioned in the other thread.

Grateful if anyone with experience could throw in their tuppence worth here.

What works, what does not, and are there any synergystic combos worth exploring?
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Dtlv74 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:38 pm

My only experience of natural supp's is using chrysin, a natural aromatase inhibitor. Now chrysin on it's own has been shown to do nothing significant to reduce eostrogen because of poor bioavailability, but i'd like to see some studies with chrysin when taken with a substance to aid absorption.

From personal experience for example, I bought a shed load of the stuff and noticed no change in anything for a month when taking on it's own, but then after reading an article on natural ways to increase free test, I decided to follow the authors suggestion and take piperine (an extract from black pepper shown to significantly increase absorption of many medications and nutrients) with it. Very quickly I noticed an increase in arousal (ahem, semi-full wood for hours) and training aggression. I am aware the effect may be psychological but it is an effect none the less.

I know that aromatase inhibition is supposed to lower sexual arousal but that's sure not what i find with this!
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby marcus300 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:40 pm

Over the years ive tried many and my clients/friends have to.In some case its kind of try and see if you respond to them or not because yet again, we all respond differently to these OTC boosters. We need to detirmine what we are talking about here....a real test booster or a libido booster because i dont think there is much out there what will boost your natural total test to a limit what will build muscle tissue to any kind of noticable effects., i would re-read that quote because its important to what some might think they will get out of a test booster...Now certain test boosters (what i will go into later on) mixed with other products can give some gains in areas but to what degree would have to be tried by the person because again it varies.

Now test booster in pct or bridging between cycles to help lift libido or help bring back total test to baseline is another matter, ive seen some help in this area and ive used them myself to help me in certain times of need....

AI's and serms all boost the natural test the best to over baseline total test IMHO and anyone wanting to try something should seek in this area,even edro doc's provide these remedies in certain counties but again using for long periods of time can be unhealthy.

Fadogia products have and do have a good respond rate and again worth trying to see if they work on you, depends on what your looking for, trib does work on many people but it wont increase test it increases libido but what ever avenue you go down with test booster i feel they are best used with creatine and maybe results might just raise its head if its size or some form of increase in tissue.

No one can say a certain test booster will increase your muscle size because there isnt one product out there what will do that 100%, we all respond differently to them like most things but the above ive mentioned ive seen and had results in areas of low libido and maintanance of tissue.
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Dtlv74 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:51 pm

May have posted this on the forum before, but it offers some suggestions for naturals at least... although I'm sure Marcus is right that nothing here could compare to AI's and SERMS.

Natural Ways To Increase Testosterone Bioavailability In Athletes

by Ivan Nikolov

Being a natural athlete I’ve always sought to find more ways to increase testosterone levels naturally. The question I’ve always asked myself was what are the variables, which determine how much testosterone is boiavailable.

I’ve read articles before, giving some advice on what in my every day life causes my test levels to go up and what causes them to go down. But after an extensive research I couldn’t find an article, explaining in detail how and actually what exactly I should manipulate directly in my system to achieve the effects I desired – namely not only higher levels of circulating testosterone but also how much of it will be available to the corresponding receptors in the cell walls. Moreover, I wanted to know all this in regards to natural bodybuilding…

So, I decided to do some good digging and reading and then if I manage to put things together, to lay that in writing form so that others can benefit as well.

Without wasting even a minute more I will start this off by describing what testosterone is and what it does in the human body. Testosterone is a steroid hormone with anabolic and androgenic properties. It is the main hormone, responsible for the increase in lean muscle tissue, increased libido, energy, bone formation, and immune function.

Testosterone is secreted in the testes in men and in the ovaries in women. Small amounts are also secreted in the adrenal glands. Testosterone is derived from cholesterol. The levels of testosterone in men range between 350 and 1,000 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dl). After the age of 40 these normal levels start dropping by roughly 1 per cent a year.

In the blood stream testosterone circulates in great percentage bound to so called binding proteins. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin or SHBG is the one that concerns us the greatest. Why? Because this is the main reason why testosterone might not be available to reach the cell receptor. When testosterone gets attached to SHBG, it is no longer able to perform its anabolic functions.

What elevates SHGB: Anorexia nervosa, Hyperthyroidism, Hypogonadism (males), Androgen insensitivity/deficiency, Alcoholic hepatic cirrhosis (males), Primary biliary cirrhosis (females).
What suppresses SHGB: Obesity, Hypothyroidism, Hirsutism (females), Acne vulgaris, Polycystic ovarian disease, Acromegaly, Androgen-secreting ovarian tumors

Less than 1% of the circulating testosterone is in a free form in males (less that 3% in females). Only when in a free form this hormone can exhibit its properties by connecting to the androgen receptors on the cell walls. Based on a study 14 to 50 per cent of the testosterone is bound to SHBG in males and 37 to 75 in females. It is worth mentioning that SHGB poses very high affinity for binding to testosterone. Therefore, changes in the SHGB levels noticeably influence the level of bioavailable testosterone.

Let’s discuss for a moment what exactly a testosterone bioavailability is. Other than SHGB there are two more testosterone-binding proteins, also called carriers. One of them is albumin. It is a low-affinity binding protein, thus testosterone bound to it is considered “bioavailable”. Albumin binds to testosterone in the range 45 to 85 per cent in men (25 – 65 in women). The third carrier is the cortisol binding globulin, which binds also with low-affinity to less that 1 % of the testosterone in circulation.
The free androgen index (FAI) indicates the amount of bioavailable testosterone. FAI is the sum of the free testosterone and the albumin and cortisol binding globulin. Or it’s the total serum testosterone minus the SHGB-bound testosterone.

It is now clear why we should focus our attention on the properties of SHGB. The levels of this binding protein increase when there is excess estrogen present. Conversely, SHGB levels drop if the testosterone levels are elevated. Here I should mention the fact that SHGB exhibits higher affinity to testosterone than to estrogen. Now, pay close attention…
It’s a well-known fact that testosterone is an estrogen precursor – it will convert to estrogen under the influence of the enzyme aromatase. Nothing that we don’t know so far. Here is where it gets interesting. Suppose that we have normal testosterone levels and we don’t suffer from any of the health ailments, which influence the SHGB levels. That means that SHGB levels are normal, too.

Bare with me now. If more of this testosterone is converted to estrogen due to abnormal aromatase levels, the SHGB I will increase as well. SHGB, being more readily bound to testosterone, will leave us with excess estrogen levels in the system, which in turn will stimulate increased production of the SHGB protein from the liver. This whole process ultimately amplifies estrogen levels. Estrogen readily binds to the androgen receptors in cells thus leaving less opportunity for the free testosterone. Even more important, estrogen is the messenger molecule that signals the brain to decrease testosterone production.

Another thing of great importance is the fact that over 40 per cent of the SHGB protein circulates unbound in the blood stream in man (over 80 per cent in women), and albumin circulates unbound almost all of the time. Thus increase in the total testosterone levels does not produce any noticeable changes in the free testosterone levels unless there is a significant increase like the one seen after synthetic steroid hormone administration.

Well, this whole story brings us to the conclusion that the main approach should be - to keep the testosterone bioavailability high.
In this regard a natural athlete should strive to:

• Prevent testosterone levels from getting low
• Attempt to increase the total testosterone as a means of keeping the testosterone levels from plunging
• Block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG
• Lower the levels of the enzyme aromatase - less testosterone conversion to estrogen
Natural Ways To Increase Testosterone Bioavailability In Athletes

1. How to prevent testosterone levels from getting low?

- Avoid obesity. Based on the way the testosterone-estrogen mechanism works, increased levels of estrogen will ultimately decrease the circulating testosterone. Excess fat causes more estrogen production due to the fact that fat cells are those, which manufacture estrogen. So, the more fat cells, the more estrogen in the blood and the less testosterone.

- Drug and alcohol abuse. Alcohol has the property to inhibit your ability to remove estrogen from the blood stream by acting as a central nervous system depressant and also by decreasing zinc levels.

- Stress elevates corticosteroid levels in the blood steam, which causes the testosterone levels to decrease.

- Medications. Some medications, including estrogen and progesterone, lower the lutenizing hormone (LH) levels. LH is the hormone, responsible for the steroid hormones production.

- Diabetes. Studies suggest that there is a link between type 2 diabetes and lower testosterone levels.

- Hypertension and high cholesterol levels. These both cause the arteries to harden, this way decreasing the blood flow to the sex hormone producing organs. That of course leads to low sex hormone levels.

- Aging. Fact is after the age of 40 test levels drops by roughly one per cent per year. We can’t do too much about that. The clock keeps ticking for all of us. However, we can try to manipulate testosterone levels in any other possible way.

- Low fat diet. Low fat consumption causes increase of the SHGB, which means one thing – less free testosterone. It is considered that monounsaturated fats play an important role in testosterone levels and bioavailability.

- Overtraining can contribute to as much as 40 per cent drop in testosterone levels. That is why it’s important to notice early the signs of overtraining and give the body a week or two well-deserved rest.

- Not enough sleep. If you are not getting enough sleep the body is not recuperating well, which causes less testosterone and more corticosteroids to be released. Just to mention corticosteroids like cortisol are in fact catabolic hormones meaning they use up muscle tissue to provide the brain and the heart with energy.

- Vitamin C. It suppresses the release of the stress hormone cortisol. Cortisol decreases testosterone levels. So, ultimately less cortisol, more testosterone.

2. How to boost testosterone levels

- Incorporate basic movements that involve several muscle groups in your training routine. Good ones are squats, dead lifts, and military presses. Basic (compound) exercises have been shown to play an important role in the testosterone levels.

- The greatest workout related testosterone production occurs with the use of heavier weights and lower rep range. A study shows that the best is 85 per cent of your one-rep max.

- Tribulus terestris is a natural supplement, which has been shown in some studies to have the ability to increase the leutenizing hormone (LH) levels. As we already mentioned above, one of the functions of LH is to stimulate testosterone production by the testes.

3. Block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG

- Nettle root as a highly concentrated extract has shown to be effective at binding to SHBG and therefore it permits more free testosterone to circulate the system. It also acts as a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor. This is the enzyme, responsible for the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a more potent form of the male sex hormone, which causes prostate enlargement and ultimately cancer. Methanolic extract of nettle can also cut down the SHBG levels, which is another form of elevating the free testosterone in the blood stream.

- Pygeum (prunus africana) is another herb, known to block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG. Nettle root and pygeum extracts also benefit the prostate gland as a preventive treatment for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) both by blocking the 5-alpha reductase action.

- Avena Sativa is an extract from the straw of oats. It has somewhat different properties. It works by freeing bound testosterone, which increases the free testosterone in circulation.

4. Lowering aromatize levels

- Zinc. The mineral zinc inhibits the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone into excess estrogen. The recommended dose for inhibiting aromatase is 80mg daily. However, be sure the combined zinc quantity of all the daily supplements you are taking does not go over this benchmark.

- Chrysin is a bioflavonoid that has shown a potential as a natural aromatase inhibitor. Chrysin is poorly absorbed in the system. It is found that when taken along with piperine, chrysin exhibits a lot better absorption. Supplementation with chrysin and piperine together might bring good results in reducing aromatase levels.

How does this all apply to the sport of natural bodybuilding?

Let’s assume you are an individual, who exercises regularly and who doesn’t consider taking exogenous steroid hormones. With other words you are a natural athlete or enthusiast, who desires to keep his natural testosterone levels in the range, favoring good health and lean muscle mass build up.
Here is what you do:

1. If you are even slightly overweight consider staring immediately a diet and training routine, tailored toward fat loss and lean muscle retention.

2. Consider also dropping the alcohol intake to absolute minimum if you want your efforts in keeping test levels high to give results.

3. Begin mastering some types of self-control or even meditation. These will take care of the excess stress levels.

4. Take medications only if they are absolutely essential for your health and are prescribed by your doctor. Talk to your personal physician to find out if there are any natural remedies to replace your current medications and if he recommends such approach for your health issue.

5. Keep your blood pressure and the serum cholesterol in check.

6. Eat enough good fats in your diet. Good means monounsaturated and omega-3 and 6 polyunsaturated fats.

7. Don’t ever overtrain. Sleep enough to promote good recovery. Signs of overtraining are loss of appetite, tiredness and irritability, lack of motivation, impaired mental focus, prolonged recovery periods.

8. Start relying more heavily on basic exercise movements. Train in the low rep range most of the time. 5 – 8 reps will ensure that you’re using weights that will eventually stimulate elevated testosterone levels.

9. It will only do you good if you decide to try some or all of these natural supplements: chrysin - piperine blend, nettle root extract, pygeum, avena sativa extract, and tribulus terestris. Try to find them in your local health store. Follow the directions for best results.

10. And you shouldn’t even consider training without supplementing your diet with enough vitamin C (at least 1g a day) and zinc (15mg min.). Take vitamin C with your multivitamin formula after breakfast, and post-workout with your protein shake. Zinc should be present in your multivitamin blend but this is not enough. Take zinc with magnesium in the form of ZMA right before you go to bed on an empty stomach.
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby simon m on Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:03 pm

I would add in here that Cortisol Blockers such as cissus helps as I am convinced that one of the major benefits of roids is that they reduce catabolism, so if we have something that reduces cortisol meaning that we remain in an anabolic state for longer, then regardless of test levels muscle will grow given the right stimulus.

I read a study on mice who were castrated, so there was no test whatsoever, but with cortisol reduced, they increased muscle density which once again proves that muscle growth is not entirely dependent upon test levels.

What works very well for me is Cissusdrol which contains:

1 cap contains 375 mg Ketosterones Extract from Cissus Quadranglaris, DVTHF, Forsklin Extracts, 6-Bromodione

So what we have in this is anti catabolic fro cissus

AI in the form of DVTHF

Test boost from Forsklin

and I'm not sure what 6-Bromodione does
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Craig on Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:34 pm

Yep cortisol reduction is a better way to go for lbm, 6-bromo is an AI but theres little info on its bioavailability and half life. The problem with test boosters is the body remains homeostasis with a negative feed back loop so in essense the only real time they will be of benifit is when your test is low.

I'm currently wondering if the right dose of resveratrol will increase test as it's so similar to tamoxifen.
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Dtlv74 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:07 pm

How do people rate high dose vitamin C as a cortisol blocker? Is it effective to any significant degree or not really?
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Bison on Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:12 pm

I rate Cissus and Rhodiola Rosea, a good combo or can be taken apart.

I've just bought some Bulgarian Tribulus (50% Protodioscin) but I've only had one cap so far... will report back!
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Alex on Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:16 pm

Chromium is another reported cortisol blocker.
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Bison on Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:26 pm

Alex wrote:Chromium is another reported cortisol blocker.

~I don't think I've heard that one before... though I do take 200mcg PWO... even more reason to keep doing it then?
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Alex on Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:33 pm

Too right.

I used to supplement this all the time pwo and in the mornings, more to regulate blood sugar.

I did post this on MP last year along with some other secondary functions of various supplements like Echinachia increasing appitite when on a bulk, Glutamine increasing GH, which we kinda all know of now.
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Dtlv74 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:35 pm

Alex wrote:Chromium is another reported cortisol blocker.


I'm assuming chromium picolinate is good for this?
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Alex on Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:11 pm

Yes (poly)picolinate is the beast.
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby SCOTT GALTON on Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:36 pm

I once used NOw trib and it was fantastic my test levels went up i was horney as hell. However tried other tribs and got nothing from them
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Alex on Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:05 pm

Scott, have you used MP's Trib Pro?
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby SCOTT GALTON on Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:17 pm

yes its did nothing for me at all
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Alex on Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:45 pm

Must admit it used to and I should feel some aggression from it but nowadays, not at all.

I may put that down to either their product not being so good or me building up a tollernace and using other supps since.
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby exclusive on Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:55 pm

Holy thread resurrection batman!!! i have ordered some of the trib from bsd, i will report back my findings. Also is it Bulgarian trib or a blend?
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby hackskii on Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:32 pm

I posted my oppinions on this subject here: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2606
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby simon m on Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:34 pm

hackskii wrote:I posted my oppinions on this subject here: http://www.esnpro.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2606

Read and enjoyed that.

As I'm 40, test boosters have had an effect, but looking forward to Anavar for a real kick!
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby exclusive on Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:06 pm

Im currently using trib, i feel leaner and harder however at the expense of my complexion it seems, was pretty much clear untill about a week after using, im getting a feW spots on my temples.

So surely this means its increasing test?
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby hackskii on Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:04 pm

Ok, here is a good indicator, and especially when you are older, like us older guys....lol

Morning wood slows down when you get older, one of the best indicators of increased testosterone would be libido, and morning wood.
If you are not getting alot of morning wood, and you try out a test booster and get more morning wood this would be a good indication of something going in a positive direction as test levels are highest in the morning.

On cycle I always get morning wood and crazy libido, even at my age of 49 years young, but off cycle, I rarely get morning wood.

There is a little bit of placebo effect here too going on, this in itself can be a motivating factor.
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Re: Test boosters for natties

Postby Tall on Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:08 pm

You can increase your test levels and during your workout by consuming ~400mg - ~800mg Caffeine.

There are obvious side effects to this.

Increased Cortisol PWO, possible lack of sleep etc.
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