Wait a second are you trying to tell me the gains you've made over the last 6 months have come from more than BSD creatine...................... YOU FUCKING DRUGGY CHEAT, GET THE F OFF OUR BOARD YOU GINGER TW4T.

I think you have a fair point about the amount of hyperbole people gush about on the net. I admit, sometimes I used to get carried away with enthusiasm for a supplement. But now I assess supplements by adding only 1 at a time and monitor whether or not it seems to make a difference. Again I think a lot of things are subjective.

I thought fish oil was supposed to help prevent dry joints which can really afflict those on cycle. For me personally, it makes a considerable difference with the dreaded cramps. Proof, if ever there was, that if there is a god, it's not female as no woman would willingly inflict such a thing on anyone else.

Difficult isn't it

I sometimes think I notice a difference with certain things, but as you say so many variables - e.g. I start taking CLA and at the same time change my diet slightly - I notice a difference in fat levels - Is it the diet change or the CLA or a bit of both? I'll never know unless I do one without the other - But with me, every time I change one thing I tend to change one or 2 other things at the same time so I never do a proper control so I'll never know.

I think there's a bit of placebo effect too.

The only thing I feel really confident about is fish oils and glucosamine & Litozin - the combination of all 3 has really helped my joints - Whenever I run out of one I notice the difference realy fast and then notice the improvemet when I've restokced and started taking again.

Glutamine - Hmm - I sometimes think it helps but never really sure - The best thing about glutamine imo is it seems to improve my gut health

The only things that make a difference to me are good quality vitamins and minerals. Aside from that I take very little supplements. Some oils, some aminos / carbs pre morning workout.

I only need to take glutamine occasionally now when I get rattuch guts, which happens rarely these days.

Although I'm getting at least half my protein from powders (patented blend of Pea, Rice, and Hemp) and this has made the world of difference. I reckon 1g from this blend is worth 2g from whey in my body.
</Waits to get raped for that comment >

Good points. Especially the placebo effect. You're convinced it works, so it does. I especially agree with your comment, Ader, about changing more than 1 thing at the time. I tend to tighten up my diet if I start taking supps. From the point of view that you are spendning money on the supps so you want to get as much out of them as possible. I've still got some glutamine in my cupboard but it doesn't really get used as it makes me feel quite nauseous.

Supps I do consider to work:

Rodiola rosea - I wasn't convinced about this to begin with but thought it wouldn't hurt to try. It takes about 2 weeks to affect me and although it does help alleviate my depression I wonder if this is more due to helping me deal better with stress and thus my mood improves accordingly.

Cissus - can't begin to explain how much better I feel taking this.

I think these are my 2 supplements. I've tried lots of others over the last few years, but this is what I know works for me. Could be a combination of the placebo affect with real results, but regardless I feel positive benefits so I'm happy with them.

Cleaver I take my hat off to you being able to stomach that blend of proteins. I have to really just gag the hemp powder down.

GymBunny wrote:Cleaver I take my hat off to you being able to stomach that blend of proteins. I have to really just gag the hemp powder down.

I mix it with a homemade blended smoothie, and some aktivated barley and palatinose. Todays smoothie consists of celery, tomato, yellow pepper and orange

I've found test, GH and protein powder to give great results when combiened, now you can call this a placebo if you like but I think I'm onto something.

where are you getting your patented blend from cleaver-meister?

I'm taking a bit more of a New Age/Hippy stance in that we are of this Earth therefore we should consume foods from the Earth as well to keep us in balance; so natural whole foods and little man made, processed foods. I wouldn't take it as far as to ban cheat foods like bread, pizza, cakes and the like but at the same time you can go for the most natural and unprocessed options as well.

So how does this translate into supplements? Sticking to basic vitamins and minerals, a few natural antioxidants and others a minimum where possible and I think these are where health benefits are the most noticable over time.

Performance based supplements are often more noticable and measurable but is the feeling of being "wired" or "jacked up" really a performance gain or is it merely a psychological one?

cleaver wrote:

GymBunny wrote:Cleaver I take my hat off to you being able to stomach that blend of proteins. I have to really just gag the hemp powder down.

I mix it with a homemade blended smoothie, and some aktivated barley and palatinose. Todays smoothie consists of celery, tomato, yellow pepper and orange

I love palatinose also, so much that I have to order off a company I don't love. Time to order some actually. Nexgen multi vits help when I feeling like cr4p too.

Next thing to try is celery seed extract to lower blood pressure.

Craig wrote:I've found test, GH and protein powder to give great results when combiened, now you can call this a placebo if you like but I think I'm onto something.

Nail on head with regards to how "other" supplements can affect other supplements.

julesm wrote:where are you getting your patented blend from cleaver-meister?

Tis my own creation. Will post further details securely later

Yeah I came to this conclusion a while ago tbh. I rate everything I use or I don't use it anymore.

These are staples to me:
Perform xs / bsd reloaded (bsd one is actually alot better)
fish oil 10g a day
vit c

Thats really about it.
I was using cla but only notice the difference when I'm under 8% or so bf.

In regards to lower BF levels, Na-RALA is one to use.

Alex wrote:In regards to lower BF levels, Na-RALA is one to use.

Oo yeah defo! I forgot that one.

And RR / SG, cissus when needed aswell..

all depends on a number of things as to whether things will show any notable/appreciable effects

for instance- for all i know i may be pissing in the wind right now (usually do)
i bought some vitamin d3 last week at 10k iu, so i thought fuck it, lets double the dose and get improved mood and associated shit in half the time...............

so been on 20k iu for a week now...do i feel anything--- no

i would say for me to get my dosing right, i would need to get bloods done first and then tailor dosing accordingly

it could be quite easy for me to to say vitamin d3 is a bag of wank and does fuck all, but i will perservere

Rab wrote:hOW HIGH DO YOU RATE NA RALA ALEX? IVE BEEN TEMPTED BY IT. DESPITE MY RANT ABOUT THE NOTICEABLE BENEFITS....WHAT IM GETTING AT IS THAT I THINK PEOPLE DONT REALLY FEEL AS MUCH AS THEY DO...ITS THE BIGGER PICTURE AND SUBTLE LONGER TERM BENIFITS.

HOW WOULD YOU RATE NA RALA WHEN YOU HAVE A TOOLBOX FULL OF CLEN, EPH AND T3? THINK ITS WORTH ADDING?

damn caps

Nope. Might be of use on refeeds to ensure maximum repartitioning and avoid spillover. Although if your protein synthesis is ramped via test etc and metabolism is ramped with T3 you might as well have a cock flavoured lollipop instead.

Craig wrote:I've found test, GH and protein powder to give great results when combiened, now you can call this a placebo if you like but I think I'm onto something.

Rab, can't really comment as obviously not used in conjunction with that little lot but standalone works well enough after a period of time and at lower BF levels. It's also a decent antioxidant in it's own right. I'll be giving it another run soonish and will have a better assessment as my BF is lower over last time I used.

Alex wrote:Rab, can't really comment as obviously not used in conjunction with that little lot but standalone works well enough after a period of time and at lower BF levels. It's also a decent antioxidant in it's own right. I'll be giving it another run soonish and will have a better assessment as my BF is lower over last time I used.

If I where you I'd do something like;
50mg prov
50mg win
50mcg t3
12.5 exemestane ed

I feel exactly the same as you Rab. You get loads of people saying they feel this and that and it's all bollocks IMO. Especially over on MP, I took this and added x amount of inches to my lats was something that Khris guy said a while ago... What a load of shit!