Supplement Cycling

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Supplement Cycling

Postby Bison on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:05 am

Some of the posts today have had me thinking more closely about how I cycle each supplement. Now I don't believe there's a magic number for all the supp's, it makes sense some will stop giving results quicker than others. Also in my experience some supp's actually get better the longer you take them for, Rhodiola Rosea for one.

So if you find anything interesting about how long to cycle a certain supplement then post it here! :)

I'll start with BETA ALANINE

Regarding your question on cycling, here is our response.

The longest performance studies on BA, are in the 10-12 week range,with CARN levels continuing to increase up to 80% by week 12 as do performance improvements. There really haven't been any performance studies that go longer than 12 weeks, so it hard to know if there will be anymore benefit to taking BA beyond that point. At this point, based on the research we recommend anyone interested in maximizing IntraXCell/Beta-Alanine's benefits, to go on atleast a three month cycle.

If future research shows that BA can keep on increasing CARN levels beyond 12 weeks, we will update our recommendations.

Having said that, studies show BA to be EXTREMELY safe and many blood biochemical, hematological and hormonal markers have been looked at with no negative impact at all by BA supplementation. I don't see any harm in staying on BA continuously if you so chose. Even if BA doesn't increase CARN levels beyond the 12 week mark, simply staying on it to maintain those levels, performance benefits and vascularity is enough of a reason for me to stay on it continuously. Also the fact that I have a life time supply doesn't hurt either.


For people on a budget that can't stay on BA continuously, we recommend 3 month cycles with 2-4 weeks off in between them.




In Summary:

1. For people who can afford and want to stay on BA/IntraXCell all the time, there is nothing in the research at this point that says you can't. Maybe when longer studies are done on BA, BA will show performance improvements past 12 weeks, or maybe continued supplementation will just maintain CARN levels/performance. Or maybe it wont show either and in fact we should go off BA periodically. Until than, we stick to our recommendations of atleast three months of continued use of BA/IntraXCell and than leave the cycle frequency up to the user and what best fits their needs.

2. For people that can't afford to stay on BA/IntraXCell continuously, we recommend you try and go on it for atleast 12 weeks as the research support performance improvements, atleast up to the 12 week mark. We also recommend to cycle off it for 2-4 weeks, from a partly scientific standpoint and a partly customer value standpoint.

Just a bit I ripped from this thread http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppleme ... osine.html

So BETA ALANINE = 12 weeks on - 2-4 weeks off.? Though quite a few people seem to think you can stay on BA indefinately with no need to cycle.
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Re: Supplement Cycling

Postby kp1512 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:15 am

Beta Alanine

A common study

Summary:

Beta-alanine supplementation (3.2g to 6.4g per day) may elevate skeletal muscle carnosine levels and enhance exercise performance in untrained subjects. Future studies need to examine whether beta-alanine supplementation can increase skeletal muscle carnosine levels and exercise performance in trained athletes as well as determine the combined effect of beta-alanine supplementation and training on performance.



Beta-alanine is a non-essential amino acid that is common in many foods that we eat, such as chicken. Beta-alanine is not much of an ergogenic aid by itself. However, when it enters the muscle cell, it becomes the rate limiting substrate to carnosine synthesis (1). In fact, Harris (2) reported that 4 weeks of supplementing beta-alanine (4 to 6 grams per day) resulted in a mean increase of 64% in skeletal muscle. Supplementing L-carnosine can also increase skeletal muscle carnosine concentrations. Once L-carnosine enters the digestive system, it is hydrolyzed into histidine and beta-alanine, which is then taken up by skeletal muscle and synthesized into carnosine (2). Due to the immediate hydrolysis, carnosine can not be taken up into the muscle intact.

Carnosine, found primarily in fast-twitch skeletal muscle, contributes to buffering of H+ thus attenuating a drop in pH associated with anaerobic metabolism. Interestingly, carnosine concentrations in athletes, such as sprinters, appear to be significantly higher than those of marathoners, untrained individuals, and the elderly (2). Furthermore, intense physical training is capable of increasing muscle carnosine levels. Twelve days of intense training of elite speed skaters has been shown to increase muscle carnosine content by 87% (2).

Suzuki et al. (5) recently examined the relationship between skeletal muscle carnosine levels and high intensity exercise performance. Suzuki et al. (5) reported there was a significant relationship between carnosine concentration and the mean power from a 30 second maximal sprint on a cycle ergometer. Basically, the higher the carnosine, the better the performance. In theory, increasing skeletal muscle carnosine levels (via beta-alanine supplementation or intense training) should increase buffering capacity, delay fatigue, and increase exercise performance.

Recently Hill et al. (3) examined the effect of beta-alanine supplementation on muscle carnosine levels and exercise performance in untrained subjects. In double blind fashion, twenty male subjects (19-31yrs) were supplemented either 4.0g beta-alanine or sugar placebo for the first week, then up to 6.4g for an additional 9 weeks. Muscle carnosine levels (via muscle biopsy) and work done were measured at weeks 0, 4, and 10 during cycling to exhaustion at 110% of estimated power max. Mean carnosine levels increased by 58% at week 4 and an additional 15% at week 10. Further, there was about a 16% increase in total work done during cycle ergometry at weeks 4 and 10.

In another study, Stout et al. (4) examined the effects of beta-alanine supplementation on physical working capacity at fatigue threshold (PWCFT) in untrained young men. In double blind fashion, subjects consumed either 1.6g of beta-alanine or sugar placebo four times per day for six days, then 3.2 grams per day 22 days. Prior to and following supplementation, the subjects performed an incremental cycle ergometry test to determine PWCFT, which was determined from bipolar surface electromyography recorded from the vastus lateralis muscle. The results revealed a significantly greater increase in PWCFT of 9% over placebo. The findings suggest that beta-alanine supplementation for 28 days may delay the onset of neuromuscular fatigue.

In conclusion, beta-alanine supplementation (3.2g to 6.4g per day) appears to elevate muscle carnosine levels and enhance exercise performance in untrained subjects. Future studies need to examine whether beta-alanine supplementation can increase muscle carnosine levels and exercise performance in highly trained athletes. Further, future investigations should also examine the combined effect of beta-alanine supplementation and training on performance.


I think with BA, its clear that you do need a longer period "on" then off. I suspect, based on the above, and a fair few of the recent studies, that with BA 12 -16 weeks will yield decent gains, but not as many as within the first 8 weeks.....it seems the muscle carnosine levels become saturated at a point. However, the studies are flawed in that we never get to see what kind of "work" they did. However, I would strongly suspect that as majority on here are not ice-skaters, we will do well in using up carnosine and replenishing it with BA...but the point at which we keep doing this, and thus allowing the body to perform better...is subjective to the work we apply.....I think once the body re-sets itself and appcreciates the "new" setpoint for muscle carnosine, then you will level off the gains...

Personally, and Ill admit ive not taken it YET, but from all ive read, it would make sense to stay on it for a MAX period of 12-16 weeks, and then take say 2-4 weeks off...let the body reset its lower carno levels...then BANG again...create the need for resetting the carno set-point the body has got used to...

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Re: Supplement Cycling

Postby Rilla on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:21 am

kp1512 wrote:I would strongly suspect that as majority on here are not ice-skaters


What led you to that conclusion? Rebecca, Cleavette and Karla are all queens of the ice...
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Re: Supplement Cycling

Postby Bison on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:27 am

Rilla wrote:
kp1512 wrote:I would strongly suspect that as majority on here are not ice-skaters


What led you to that conclusion? Rebecca, Cleavette and Karla are all queens of the ice...

HAHAHA!! :lol:

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Re: Supplement Cycling

Postby simon m on Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:55 am

Bison wrote:
Rilla wrote:
kp1512 wrote:I would strongly suspect that as majority on here are not ice-skaters


What led you to that conclusion? Rebecca, Cleavette and Karla are all queens of the ice...

HAHAHA!! :lol:

...don't forget Simontha M :mrgreen:



Humph!

I'm off for a skate now!

I've been off of the BA for well over a month and just started again and it's noticeable how much more fatigue sets in with higher volume work when not on BA.
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Re: Supplement Cycling

Postby Karlos on Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:56 am

Lol here's a quick pic of me last night at the rink...


Image


Incase you were wondering that's rilla spreading his wings....my hand still smells funky! :x
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Re: Supplement Cycling

Postby cleaver on Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:16 pm

Rilla wrote:
kp1512 wrote:I would strongly suspect that as majority on here are not ice-skaters


What led you to that conclusion? Rebecca, Cleavette and Karla are all queens of the ice...


pfft. you'd be there as well barbarilla :D
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