Sodium Bicarbonate loading

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Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby health4ni on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:08 am

Found a great review of the research regarding sodium bicarbonate loading for improved sorting performance.

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/soda-loading.htm

The loading protocol is here:
The scientific evidence suggests that a dose of less than 0.1g of sodium bicarbonate per kg of body mass is unlikely to be effective while, at the other end of the scale, a dosage greater than 0.3g/kg BM is unlikely to further improve the potential performance benefit. This upper limit may be slightly lower for females (0.25g/kg BM) since they commonly have a lower level of muscle mass.

The generally accepted protocol for bicarbonate loading is to divide the calculated total dose into five relatively even amounts and, starting three hours before competition, to stagger the intake at 30-minute intervals so that loading is complete an hour before the start.


I've not taken this amount (~20g for me) before any exercise. I'll give it a go when I next do a conditioning / high volume session.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby kp1512 on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:12 am

very interesting......what would you expect in terms of perf?
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby health4ni on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:20 am

The studies show improved times in the running & swimming.

I'd say that with regards to lifting weights & more conditioning based training, you'll be able to keep going for longer. So, that would mean a few more reps. It'll probably be most evident towards the end of the training session when lactate levels are highest due to them being built up over the session.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby kp1512 on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:37 am

health4ni wrote:The studies show improved times in the running & swimming.

I'd say that with regards to lifting weights & more conditioning based training, you'll be able to keep going for longer. So, that would mean a few more reps. It'll probably be most evident towards the end of the training session when lactate levels are highest due to them being built up over the session.


i cant for the life of me find this excerpt i saw last week - was some guy writing about Beta Alanine and he also mentioned SB as well.....and logically thinking those two together would be a very serious enduro stack
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby health4ni on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:48 am

Probably for another thread, but do you have info on the exact mechanism for how Beta Alanine works?
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Alex on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:59 am

Acts as a buffer on muscle blood PH so in very basic terms delaying the build up of Lactic Acid.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby health4ni on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:01 pm

^^ yup, I knew that. Does it well too. Just wondering if there's a more detailed and complex explanation of the process involved and how the beta alanine breaks down into xyz chemicals etc etc
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Alex on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:17 pm

Beta-Alanine (BA) is the only naturally occurring beta amino acid. It is a non-essential amino acid found naturally in both the body and in foods such as chicken. Beta-alanine's performance enhancing effects are due to its ability to raise intra-muscular levels of carnosine. Research has shown that there is a strong relationship between carnosine concentrations in muscle and high intensity exercise performance.

Scientists have demonstrated that high intensity/high volume training significantly increases muscle carnosine concentrations in untrained subjects. However this rise in carnosine levels soon plateaus, after which, the only way to increase levels further is to supplement with BA (carnosine itself is poorly absorbed in humans). BA has been shown to raise muscle carnosine levels by 64% in as little as 4 weeks, and by 80% after 10 weeks. Carnosine is a naturally occurring di-peptide that is found in both type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers (but in significantly higher concentrations in type 2 fibers) and its primary function is to act as an intracellular buffer of hydrogen ions (H+). When we exercise, especially when it’s high intensity exercise, our bodies accumulate a large amount of hydrogen ions (H+), causing our muscles’ pH to drop (becoming more acidic).

This acidification of the blood causes fatigue, decreases muscular performance and reduces the magnitude of neural drive - forcing muscular failure. Moreover in a more acidic environment ATP is less effective and the release of calcium - a key component to muscle contraction - is hindered substantially. In addition to causing a drop in muscle pH, hydrogen ions also inhibit the PFK enzyme (reducing the body's capacity to produce energy from glucose), as well as interfering with the formation of the actin-myosin cross bridges (necessary for muscle contraction to occur). By maintaining higher levels of muscle carnosine through beta alanine supplementation, it is possible to delay the build up of H+ and the resultant detrimental effects this accumulation causes. Furthermore carnosine helps activate the enzymes responsible for generating muscle contractions (myofibrillar-ATPase). By generating this enzyme it appears that Carnosine prevents fatigue through yet another mechanism entirely.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby health4ni on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:35 pm

Thanks Alex
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Dtlv74 on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:44 pm

I've read (but not looked for a study yet) that beta alanine also raises cellular levels of glutamine... and this has an additional buffering effect to carnosine synthesis. Will try and track that info down.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Alex on Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:52 pm

The only issue I've had with loading with BA in the past is that it can make me feel a little sleepy 20 mins after dosing.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby kp1512 on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:17 pm

Alex wrote:The only issue I've had with loading with BA in the past is that it can make me feel a little sleepy 20 mins after dosing.


me too mate. im taking it now and i get the tingly and sleep feel within 30 mins. i find ba/creatine a good mix tbh
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Richard on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:23 pm

Alex wrote:The only issue I've had with loading with BA in the past is that it can make me feel a little sleepy 20 mins after dosing.


Never noticed that. I like the tingles though :)

quote="kp1512"]
me too mate. im taking it now and i get the tingly and sleep feel within 30 mins. i find ba/creatine a good mix tbh[/quote]

2 things that actually work - definately a good mix.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Alex on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:36 pm

kp1512 wrote:
Alex wrote:The only issue I've had with loading with BA in the past is that it can make me feel a little sleepy 20 mins after dosing.


me too mate. im taking it now and i get the tingly and sleep feel within 30 mins. i find ba/creatine a good mix tbh


Wonder what it would be like pre bed to aid sleep?
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Flash Sketcha on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:36 pm

I was thinking of doing this for sprinting, but there certainly is potential for that sort of dosing to give you the shits!
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Alex on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:45 pm

ash fletcher wrote:I was thinking of doing this for sprinting, but there certainly is potential for that sort of dosing to give you the shits!


Bicarb or BA?
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Flash Sketcha on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:57 pm

Alex wrote:
ash fletcher wrote:I was thinking of doing this for sprinting, but there certainly is potential for that sort of dosing to give you the shits!


Bicarb or BA?


Bicarb, i do plan on use BA, cittruline malate and other supps of bsd though, but they would main ones for this type of benefit.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Alex on Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:29 pm

Yeah, I find bicarb can empty me out pretty good.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby health4ni on Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:34 pm

You must exercise caution with sodium bicarb use when starting out. Start with small doses (1 teaspoon is fine) and then build up if you intend to load with it. It does have a bowel stimulatory effect. So yes, don't take it close to exercise. But 45-60mins before is a good guide.

Creatine has some research supporting it's use pre-bed to aid sleep. I hadn't heard about BA. It doesn't do that to me. I like the buzz and that gets me going :D
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Flash Sketcha on Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:53 pm

health4ni wrote:You must exercise caution with sodium bicarb use when starting out. Start with small doses (1 teaspoon is fine) and then build up if you intend to load with it. It does have a bowel stimulatory effect. So yes, don't take it close to exercise. But 45-60mins before is a good guide.

Creatine has some research supporting it's use pre-bed to aid sleep. I hadn't heard about BA. It doesn't do that to me. I like the buzz and that gets me going :D



Does it neccerily have to be taken close to exercise? Can you become saturated with above normal levels liek creatine?
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby health4ni on Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:58 pm

Your body has a natural "pool"/store of alkaline buffering minerals. I suspect that most people's are far from ever reaching full. And even if you did, just exercising and living basically will begin to deplete it until you ingest liquids & foods that have these minerals in them (and ideally end up being an alkaline food).

Since we all here train hard and often then I doubt we'd ever reach full saturation at any point.

I would say that this loading (ingesting 20-30g depending on bodyweight within 3hrs) is something done only before exercise/training/sporting event. Taking sodium bicarb throughout the day is fine imo and something I've been doing for nearly 9 months now. In my case I would simply take extra sodium bicarb in this aforementioned loading fashion on days when I deem it worthwhile.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Alex on Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:00 pm

So perhaps through the morning before a game and day before training in my case?
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Flash Sketcha on Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:05 pm

I think having 5 gram doses spread throughtout day is probably the 'safest' option lol :lol: if you combine it with BA and citrulline malate like im planning to do i'm sure the effect will be awesome anyway.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby health4ni on Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:30 pm

Alex wrote:So perhaps through the morning before a game and day before training in my case?
Yeah, I'd say. Best just to test it out and see what happens before you play a game. Maybe add a few grams into your half-time drink too.

ash fletcher wrote:I think having 5 gram doses spread throughtout day is probably the 'safest' option lol :lol: if you combine it with BA and citrulline malate like im planning to do i'm sure the effect will be awesome anyway.
Like I say above, worth seeing how a higher dose works for you and adjust accordingly. I'd find out what works for you with just sodium bicarb before adding the others into the mix.

Be interesting to hear both your results from this.
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Re: Sodium Bicarbonate loading

Postby Alex on Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:05 am

I'll probably try a dry run at home and make sure I don't get caught short as there are no facilities where we train, then give it a go on a training day.
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