Rab wrote:Thats exactly it Cat...change a degree or two at a time.

or fail at changing...

Rab wrote:I gotta say Craig is pretgood at sarcasm.

Really?

Rab wrote:"Something you knew less than nothing about" PMSL

Yeah yeah, wait until I get home on Friday and I'll reduce the man to tears for this

Oh for goodness sake, crumpets are fine (even if accompanied by the pure evil that is marmite)... can cut on those no problem. Just a bit of calorie control and appropriate exercise... big si knows what he's doing.

So long as he's 'porridge PCTing' anything will work

the_cheshirecat wrote:
Yeah yeah, wait until I get home on Friday and I'll reduce the man to tears for this

Your going to tickle me?

Craig wrote:

the_cheshirecat wrote:
Yeah yeah, wait until I get home on Friday and I'll reduce the man to tears for this

Your going to tickle me?

Wednesday 7 July 2010

Breakfast: 2 scoops BSD Milk Protein & 1 Slice of toast

9.30 McDonald's Sausage & Egg McMuffin - Mrs M bought as I've been gardening since 6 am!

2.00 pm Protein bar with 32g protein and 6g carbs

6.20 pm - Ham Egg & Chips (with salad )

simon m wrote:Wednesday 7 July 2010

Breakfast: 2 scoops BSD Milk Protein & 1 Slice of toast

9.30 McDonald's Sausage & Egg McMuffin - Mrs M bought as I've been gardening since 6 am!

MmM Macky D breakfast - haven't had one of those in ages

See i disagree with all this gradual crap. Shock the body. 'Fat loss is an all out war.' You can make gradual changes and get nowhere!

I'm not saying drastically reduce cals, but you should eat 95% clean! Replace junky carbs with good ones, you will feel better and your body won't be craving carbs cause you're getting them. Plus you will lose substantial fat cause you're not spiking your insulin, and fat oxidation will remain at an elevated rate for longer after your cardio!

Okay i can understand gradual changes with the newbie trainee who's been on a shit diet for their entire life, but i'm pretty sure you don't come under that category.

Karlos wrote:See i disagree with all this gradual crap. Shock the body. 'Fat loss is an all out war.' You can make gradual changes and get nowhere!

I'm not saying drastically reduce cals, but you should eat 95% clean! Replace junky carbs with good ones, you will feel better and your body won't be craving carbs cause you're getting them. Plus you will lose substantial fat cause you're not spiking your insulin, and fat oxidation will remain at an elevated rate for longer after your cardio!

Okay i can understand gradual changes with the newbie trainee who's been on a shit diet for their entire life, but i'm pretty sure you don't come under that category.

I don't disagree, but I'm busier than most due to work and home life, so I'm trying to clean up and use exercise as well.

I don't crave anything either. It's just convenience when busy.

Well it's not bollocks, it's just another view point. I understand your viewpoint though and that's fair enough, it just wouldn't work for me. I'm definitely an all or nothing guy when it comes to making good food choices.

Thursday - 8 July 2010

Breakfast 2 scoops BSD Milk Protein & 1 Slice of Toast

9.20 am Satsuma

10.30 am - 3 turkey meatballs

12.30 pm bacon & egg banjo

4.30 pm Heinz Beans and Sausages on Toast


I'm going camping in a minute, so ate with my daughter who fancied this

simon m wrote:I'm going camping in a minute, so ate with my daughter who fancied this

See, I think that this is the real issue: when you're alone you can eat whatever you want, and be as strict as you want, but when you're part of a family it all becomes a matter of compromises: even accepting to cook each meal twice (normal people and fanatic version) wouldn't seeing yummy food pass in front of you at all times drive you more insane on a strict diet when you don't allow yourself any leeway?

Rab wrote:The Cheshire cat explained with her situation negotiating degrees of change at a time with her mentor and hubby Craig aka Charlie Brown She has done outstanding.

The cat is STILL doing outstanding: after a very depressing day at work I am eating oatcakes instead of Jaffa cakes, that's the power of small changes

I think that both you and Karlos are right in a way: different solutions suit different people and different situations.
Simon doesn't need to learn new habits, and he's not in a hurry so he choses a compromise that will also allow him to be able to eat with the rest of his family, there's nothing wrong with that!

BUT I had to take abandon all gluten when I met Craig, so an "all out war" is not necessarily impossible, only very harsh!
(I say this while happily munching on gluten-loaded oatcakes )

Rab wrote:

Karlos wrote:Well it's not bollocks, it's just another view point. I understand your viewpoint though and that's fair enough, it just wouldn't work for me. I'm definitely an all or nothing guy when it comes to making good food choices.

Well you call "crap" on gradually doing things and I call bollocks on "all out war"

Both will work, its my opinion that gradually will work better for most people as small changes at a time are easier to maintain. Turning a full lifestyle of eating habits on its head overnight is a recipe for failure like The Cheshire cat explained with her situation negotiating degrees of change at a time with her mentor and hubby Craig aka Charlie Brown She has done outstanding.

In theory a gradual reduction in kcals allows for a more suitable for fat loss horomal profile - no sudden thyroid or leptin reductions that can follow a shock calorie reduction... lots of variables involved though and some people will get far less a dramatic metabolic downshift with a sudden drop. Both methods can work overall anyway though.

Have no idea about what works best when cutting to very low bodyfat, but when playing around between 10-20% and not in a hurry, a modest gradual reduction in kcals and increased exercise seem to work best I think for helping you lose the fat and not really feel like you are undereating at all (at least for me).

I think actually the most important situation relating to graduating things when cutting is if you've cut low carb and then want to stop cutting and eat more carbs again... reintroduce them slowly to avoid issues with insulin sensitivity. While low carb diets do improve insulin sensitivity, they don't actually do it very well when on a cut as calorie restriction forces the bodies tissues to become less sensitive to insulin in order to spare glucose for the immune system, brain and CNS. This causes no problem so long as calories are kept in deficit, but can result in a fat gain rebound (for two-three weeks) when calories and carbs suddenly go up again before the body readjusts its sensitivity to insulin.

Rab wrote:Det i think the gradual reintroduction in theory may be right, but in practice it isnt true from what ive found..ie...being on 80g carbs for several weeks then going onto 500g a day maybe...

If depleted you just seem to fill up, get insane pumps and look awesome. Rather than getting fat being an issue in the first 2-3 weeks once stopping low carbs..its more 2-3 weeks after you come off it that the fat starts to go on

This is presuming you have been low carb for a while and are pretty depleted. It takes quite a while for your body to fill back up and it seems to super compensate to bursting point...sits there for a while....then starts to get fat

yep rebounding rocks

Cant you just eat clean mon-sat then sun eat like fuk whatever you want! Cheat days rule.

i think that is where the wheel will fall off- the monotony of eating cold bland food everyday from a tupperware box

i dont think si inends to compete, so therefore should not put to the same rigours as a pre-show bodybuilder, but rather a sensible diet, that takes account of his situation (family meals etc) and any negatively-deemed foods can be abated by an extra 5-10mins cardio

and si get on some dnp you big fanny

Rab wrote:Det i think the gradual reintroduction in theory may be right, but in practice it isnt true from what ive found..ie...being on 80g carbs for several weeks then going onto 500g a day maybe...

If depleted you just seem to fill up, get insane pumps and look awesome. Rather than getting fat being an issue in the first 2-3 weeks once stopping low carbs..its more 2-3 weeks after you come off it that the fat starts to go on

This is presuming you have been low carb for a while and are pretty depleted. It takes quite a while for your body to fill back up and it seems to super compensate to bursting point...sits there for a while....then starts to get fat

Well the fat gain rebound is more an issue for people with naturally poor carb tolerance, poor insulin management and who have been fat before with higher numbers of empty fat cells waiting to soak the sudden extra calories up. Insulin and carb management is as much genetic as it is about what you eat and how much, so plenty of individual differences involved.

good post det
although diabetes is on the rise- there is an even bigger endemic waiting to happen for sub-clinical diabetes - ie insulin insensitivity
granted carb cycling will prime you, but once you cross over......fat storage all the way baby