upright wrote:Have you used these stacks in your recovery from illness? I know many guys on here already use many of those ingredients and have had good success with that, personally, I'm not the scientist and like to hear of substantial quantifiable results... not picking, just thrifty

Sentient Primate wrote:
Yes, they were part of my recovery strategy. I have no way of knowing to what extent (if any) these nutrients effected my overall recovery. I do know that I feel markedly better when I take them. That is, the results are substantial and quantifiable for me. I hope that helps.

Steve H

Alex wrote:GABA is classed as a medicine (I think) over here, hence why it can't be purchased off the shelf.

Alex wrote:Good little stack.

However you'd gain benefit from OKG (Ornithine) pre bed as well, possible more so than during the day time.

Alex wrote:This is possibly due to it's insulin response which can be offset by using Na-RALA for example.

Sentient Primate wrote:Night Time:

3gm L-Glutamine
3gm GABA *
3gm Arginine Alpha Ketogluterate
2gm L-Glycine
200mg Niacin (Flush B-3)
2gm MSM

* 5gm would be better, in my opinion and experience.

Lipoic acid (LA) is a sulfur-containing fatty acid that performs vitamin-like roles in the body. Also known as "thioctic acid," LA functions, in a similar way to B complex vitamins, as a co-enzyme in the metabolism of carbohydrates that produces energy inside cells for the body’s metabolic needs. LA is required for synthesis of "acetyl CoA," a key metabolite in the cellular process that turns glucose into energy.

However, as the body produces LA on its own, it is not classified as a true vitamin. Lipoic acid also promotes healthy blood glucose by reducing glucose tolerance and increasing insulin sensitivity, effects which may be of benefit to those with type 2 (insulin resistant) diabetes. In healthy individuals - and of particular interest to bodybuilders - this may translate into an enhanced 'nutrient partitioning' effect leading to lower bodyfat and increased levels of lean mass over time.


In addition to playing a crucial role in metabolism, energy production and insulin function - LA also functions as a potent fat and water soluble antioxidant, which is able to readily cross the blood-brain barrier. Lipoic acid further enhances its antioxidant properties by being able to recycle vitamins C and E - as well as the bodies master antioxidant - glutathione. However, as LA is preferentially used in metabolic processes, in order to obtain its versatile antioxidant effects, it must be present in the body at much higher levels than endogenous (natural) production allows. Lipoic acid comes in two forms (isomers), R-lipoic acid and S-lipoic acid. R-lipoic acid is naturally synthesized by humans, animals and plants. S-lipoic acid is formed during the chemical synthesis of alpha-lipoic acid (ALA).

ALA is a mixture of isomers, containing equal parts (a racemic mix) of both R-lipoic acid and S-lipoic acid, and whilst being a popular supplement itself, recent research has shown that the unnatural/synthetic S-form may actually interfere with the beneficial properties of the natural R-form. Unfortunately the RLA is a very unstable molecule that easily degrades with exposure to heat, light and moisture; fortunately there is a way to stabalise RLA and vastly improve bio-availability. R-Lipoic Acid is chemically considered to be a weak acid. A principle of pharmacology is that salts of weak acids have a much higher solubility in water than the weak acid on its own. Initially Potassium salts (K-RALA) were used (with limited success) before the Sodium salt of RLA or Na-RALA - was developed which can contain nearly twice the active load of RLA whilst improving stability, solubility and bio-availability.

Supplementing with Na-Rala:

- Provides a powerful antioxidant action in both the fatty and watery regions of cells (fat and water soluble)
- Recycles Vitamins A and E as well as Glutathione
- Has neuroprotective effects
- Increases insulin sensitivity, positively impacting blood glucose levels
- May positively affect body composition due to its 'nutrient partitioning' effects

Suggested use:

Take 1 capsule, up to four times daily with food. 1 capsule can also be taken post-workout with a recovery drink.

Dtlv74 wrote:

Sentient Primate wrote:Night Time:

3gm L-Glutamine
3gm GABA *
3gm Arginine Alpha Ketogluterate
2gm L-Glycine
200mg Niacin (Flush B-3)
2gm MSM

* 5gm would be better, in my opinion and experience.

Have tried a similar stack pre-bed before along these lines;

5g GABA
4g Glutamine
3g OKG
3g AAKG
Vit B complex

Found it great for improved sleep, good sense of relaxation during the day, and after around three weeks slightly improved muscle 'hardness'. The thinking behind this lot was as a hGH secretagogue stack, and from this point of view it would have also benefited from the addition of Lysine and Glycine. Actual studies on this kind of thing don't actually show much change in hGH levels but am not sure how I actually rate the studies themselves... many don't (and can't) test the effect such a stack has on hGH during sleep, and the invasive nature of blood tests naturally raises stress hormones anyway which antagonises positive changes in the very hormonal responses tested.

Anecdotally these kinds of thing do appear to make a moderate difference when continued over time, so I do think they are worth an experiement at least.

Alex wrote:Just a general Insulin Response as any amino rates reasonably high in the Insulin Index which differs from Glycemeric Index.