saturated fat and teachers views!

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saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Hillman on Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:48 pm

I would just like to find out peoples views on saturated fat because my nutrition teacher is dead against saturated fat and when my mate said saturated fat isn’t that bad for you she came back the next day saying her friend who works in a lab says that it is really bad for you and that him and my teacher are worried that we are getting told this. Does any one have any good surveys on this subject?
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Alex on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:05 pm

Have a look at MCT's (Medium Chain Triglycerides) as these are a good saturate.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby health4ni on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:06 pm

MCTs are found in coconut oil and are saturated and are very healthy. Coconut oil got a bad rep years ago due to the very poor quality coconut oil they used to produce; i.e. it was hydrogenated! Now, it is not like at all as long as you buy decent stuff.

One ingredient in coconut oil is Lauric acid; that is found in human breast milk. As is Vaccenic acid which is actually a trans-fat would you believe! However, it is also healthy.

There are other healthy, or at the very least no-ill effects, saturated fats.

There is no good/bad answer to saturated fats. It has to be WHAT TYPES of saturated fats.

On the whole, most saturated fats the "standard" population people consumes is bad.

Saturated means the hydrogen bonds (I think) are fully saturated. Mono-unsaturated means one bond is free and poly means many.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby RoB on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:23 pm

In my opinion, saturated fats should be the mainstay of your fat intake followed by mono-unsaturated and poly unsaturated fats should be kept to a minimum, only enough to provide the right amounts and balance of EFA's. By it's very nature saturated fat is more stable and thus less prone to oxidation. The demonizing of saturated fat is a stupid idea, there are very few absolutes in nutrition. Obviously there are effects on insulin sensitivity and cholesterol levels that saturated fat can exert, but I personally don't worry about them because you have to take into context the whole dietary/lifstyle profile of a person when your looking at those kind of things.

But do not take mine, or anyone else word for it. Do some research (from reputable sources, not mumbo jumbo gurus) and come to your own conclusions. There are far to many woefully under educated 'nutritional' gurus that dish out absolutes (not a stab at anyone just in case it comes across that way), don't trust your health in someone else's opinion. Especially not a nutrition teacher who is no doubt so entrenched in the standard government dogma, that they cannot and/or do not want to think for themselves.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Max on Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:22 pm

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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Resurrected on Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:38 pm

Do a google search for saturated fat myth. You will find a plethora of information that explains why the myth about fat came about etc.

Ask your teacher why it is that heart disease and heart related illness has continued increasing disproportionately when compared to the decrease in the consumption of fats!! Thus we are brainwashed continuosly that saturated fat causes heart disease (don't forget smoking as well) yet over the past 40-50 years the consumption of both of these things has decreased significantly. However there is no correlation in any decrease of heart disease.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Dtlv74 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:53 pm

High quantities of saturated fats consumed at one sitting can, on a regular basis, negatively impact the health of your liver, clog arteries, decrease insulin sensitivity and increase your visceral fat stores - not good. Also, a high level of saturated fat intake can be artery clogging if you eat more than you burn for energy. While carbs consumed above those which you need for immediate energy and glycogen stores are unhealthy, so are saturated fats consumed above the amount at which you need.

Someone who is 'fat adapted' and low carb however will obviously be able to eat more saturated fat without these negatives occurring, as such individuals are reliant primarily on fat for energy rather than primarily carbs. The same dangers apply relating to consuming fat beyond energy need though - be wary of anyone who tells you that 'calories in versus calories out' is meaningless and it's all about how you split your macros. Clever division of macros does improve nutrient partitioning but beyond this measure you can still become too fat and unhealthy simply by overeating.

Don't forget that long chain fatty acids are the easiest nutrient to store as fat. Apart from the natural hydrogenated fats in things like milk, avoid hydrogenated fats at all costs - they just mess you up by blocking the essential functions of other fatty acids.

On the other hand, saturated fats are the most heat stable fats and as Rob says and are the most resistant to oxidation... and as Health says the term 'saturated fats' covers a wide range of different long chain fatty acid molecules some of which can exert beneficial effects and some of which are pretty much just empty calories. Remember too that saturates are needed for good cholesterol and hormone production so they should never be totally excluded.

In general if eating more than 25% of kcal from carbs (ie not low carb) then I'd say to keep saturates low and no more than 10-15% of total kcals or one third to a half of your total fat intake. If low carb then you can go higher, but select fats that are as unprocessed as possible and avoid overeating.
Last edited by Dtlv74 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Resurrected on Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:57 pm

Fully agree Det, as I am sure you know I am totally against the idea of 'fat consumption' is god. In fact it is a reason I stepped down and was banned as a a moderator on a certain other forum.

Like may things the modicum to use is 'in moderation'.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby roadz on Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:55 pm

I agree... As said though, that wanker NU nutrition is still baning on about fat lol
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby cleaver on Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:59 pm

I'm not overly concerned by saturated fats per se. My biggest concern is cooked fats of any variety, even saturated ones. I've been trying to limit my intake of them and getting my fats as raw as possible.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Dtlv74 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:16 am

cleaver wrote:I'm not overly concerned by saturated fats per se. My biggest concern is cooked fats of any variety, even saturated ones. I've been trying to limit my intake of them and getting my fats as raw as possible.


That's a good approach i think, especially with the non saturated ones. The only two fats I actually cook with and heat are coconut fat and sometimes a little butter - seed oils and things like that I just use as they are.

Worth seeking out the cold pressed ones too as well as those in dark bottles to prevent degradation due to light - something that can actually damage poly and mono unsaturates more than oxidation due to heating or air exposure if exposed to light for long enough.

All those nice clear bottles of seed oils on nicely lit supermarket shelves.... grrrrrrrr, often in crappy toxin leaching plastic bottles too.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby RoB on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:35 am

Dtlv74 wrote:High quantities of saturated fats consumed at one sitting can, on a regular basis, negatively impact the health of your liver, clog arteries, decrease insulin sensitivity and increase your visceral fat stores - not good. Also, a high level of saturated fat intake can be artery clogging if you eat more than you burn for energy. While carbs consumed above those which you need for immediate energy and glycogen stores are unhealthy, so are saturated fats consumed above the amount at which you need.




Would you not agree then, that all of these deleterious effects can be mitigated by other aspects of lifestyle? Someone who exercises intensely on a regular basis would have perfectly fine insulin sensitivity which would have a knock on effect with regards to issues with the liver (if your talking about fatty liver that is), visceral fat and to a certain extent the 'clogged arteries'.

Dtlv74 wrote:In general if eating more than 25% of kcal from carbs (ie not low carb) then I'd say to keep saturates low and no more than 10-15% of total kcals or one third to a half of your total fat intake. If low carb then you can go higher, but select fats that are as unprocessed as possible and avoid overeating.


This I do agree with completely, trying to have it both ways is stupid. Mixing high carb with a lot of fat (especially saturated) is just a recipe for disaster.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby health4ni on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:02 pm

Resurrected wrote:Fully agree Det, as I am sure you know I am totally against the idea of 'fat consumption' is god.
Are you saying fat consumption is bad? Or too much as a % of overall calorific intake alongside protein & carbs?
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Resurrected on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:20 pm

health4ni wrote:
Resurrected wrote:Fully agree Det, as I am sure you know I am totally against the idea of 'fat consumption' is god.

Are you saying fat consumption is bad? No

Or too much as a % of overall calorific intake alongside protein & carbs? Yes


Scott,

I'm refering to another forum that I used to belong to where a diet method was highly thought of that involved following a very high fat diet. In fact if I remember correctly the moderator that 'preached' this diet ate a meat only diet and had a consumption of at least 50% fat in his diet.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Alex on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:30 pm

In all honesty I think you're leaving yourself open to a high risk of Bowel/Intestinal Cancer by continuous eating in such a manner.

I agree generally with fats being better consumed raw (cold) over heated and/or processed although some are best avoided regardless of their state. For me this is animal fats, vegetable and sunflower oils.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby health4ni on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:34 pm

@Ressie: ah yes I remember now. That is one nasty diet indeed.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Karlos on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:35 pm

I don't understand how anyone can be dead against sat fat! That is just a totally unbalanced, ill-informed and out-dated point of view. It's a naturally occurring nutrient found in animal meat, which we have evolved to eat.

I actually had a nutrition lecture yesterday and the examples of saturated fat came in the form of pastries, savory junk food etc. Also egg yolks are removed due to high cholesterol...seriously. :roll:

My view is that all fats consumed should be as natural as possible and in sensible amounts. I also agree it depends on your dietary approach. My carb meals exclude fat, but most of the time i'm low carb so my metabolic pathways should be efficient at utilizing fat. I don't go overboard on any one type of fat because my food choices include whole foods which naturally contain a nice mixture of fatty acids. I only use small amounts of unrefined oils and (anchor) butter to boost fat in low carb meals.

Alex do you avoid animal fats? Do you not think we're meant to eat animals at all?
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Alex on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:56 pm

Karla, I wouldn't say I directly avoid animal fats per se but I wouldn't purposefully look to eat more fatty cuts of meat or consume high fat dairy sources for making up my fat quota as I feel these sources are bad enough for other reasons without entering them into the fat debate. Those that eat fatty cuts and happily knock back 100ml plus of cream on a daily basis just to make up calories I think are running into problems long term with their general health and body composition. Think healthy on the inside as well as the outside.

Generally animal and dairy based fats are the hardest to metabolise and really have little to offer in terms of any nutritional benefit so why would I choose to eat in qunatity?

Eggs would be the one dairy/animal source that I would exclude from this reasoning.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Dtlv74 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:57 pm

RoB wrote:Would you not agree then, that all of these deleterious effects can be mitigated by other aspects of lifestyle? Someone who exercises intensely on a regular basis would have perfectly fine insulin sensitivity which would have a knock on effect with regards to issues with the liver (if your talking about fatty liver that is), visceral fat and to a certain extent the 'clogged arteries'.


Yes I do agree - Maasai and Innuits who live and eat traditionally don't really suffer these issues despite high levels of saturated fat - but their lifestyles are very active, they culturally don't over eat, and their food sources are unprocessed and not intensively farmed. They also tend to get good ratios of omega fatty acids, something which can I think also improve how your body deals with saturates.

Alex wrote:Karla, I wouldn't say I directly avoid animal fats per se but I wouldn't purposefully look to eat more fatty cuts of meat or consume high fat dairy sources for making up my fat quota as I feel these sources are bad enough for other reasons without entering them into the fat debate. Those that eat fatty cuts and happily knock back 100ml plus of cream on a daily basis just to make up calories I think are running into problems long term with their general health and body composition. Think healthy on the inside as well as the outside.


Another potential issue with animal fats from non organic sources is toxin storage - many intensively farmed animals are given steroids and antibiotics to increase their growth, but these chemicals leave trace metabolites which get stored in bodyfat. The effects of ingesting fat with these traces over a long period of time is not fully studied but there do appear to be links to disease. Am not saying you will go purple and die from one bite, but do think that avoiding excessive consumption is prudent.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Ader on Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:16 pm

Dtlv74 wrote:Yes I do agree - Maasai and Innuits who live and eat traditionally don't really suffer these issues despite high levels of saturated fat - but their lifestyles are very active, they culturally don't over eat, and their food sources are unprocessed and not intensively farmed. They also tend to get good ratios of omega fatty acids, something which can I think also improve how your body deals with saturates.
That makes a lot of sense - I belive also that innuits naturally store body fat for unsulation too and for use during times of scarce food supply - Their fat therefore gets used - So their metabolism works somewhat differently from teh average couch potato where it's just stored end of story - Probably not a very scentific view but in my mind as they're using teh fat for good purposes if you like, then it's not just clogging up the arteries etc. - I think of it as an 'active' fat as opposed to a 'passive fat - Like I said not scentific!
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Hillman on Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:16 pm

Thanks everyone for the replys!!
There is some good information here,me and my mate had a debate with her today about Sat Fat but i don't think she liked the fact that we didn't agree with what she was saying and had our own views. She also said that we should listen to were we got our information from because it would of been done by amateur scientist.
She said Sat Fats was really bad for you and this is why there is so many heart problems then went on to say in the 1950's people ate a very high sat fat diet but the amount of heart problems was very low!
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Dtlv74 on Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:28 pm

Hillman wrote:Thanks everyone for the replys!!
There is some good information here,me and my mate had a debate with her today about Sat Fat but i don't think she liked the fact that we didn't agree with what she was saying and had our own views. She also said that we should listen to were we got our information from because it would of been done by amateur scientist.
She said Sat Fats was really bad for you and this is why there is so many heart problems then went on to say in the 1950's people ate a very high sat fat diet but the amount of heart problems was very low!


The sat fat heart issues are complicated by several factors, including which kind of saturated fat you are talking about (the different long chain fatty acids each have differing effects on cholesterol), which non saturated fats you eat with your saturates (some combinations can lower cholesterol and triglyceride formation rate, other combinations will worsen these issues) and whether you eat them with high GI carbs or not, as well as genetic conditions and activity level. She's stupid to claim any problems are all down to saturated fat alone... and if she thinks that then she needs to go back to college.

Her implied point about amateur scientists being poor sources of info is generally valid, but that point also applies am afraid to a fair number of professional scientists and teachers also.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Hillman on Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:39 pm

With my teacher once i mention any think that i don't agree with she says that i am wrong straight away and you don't get chance to expalin your views.
i agree with you on amateur scientists its just that fact that she doesn't even know were i got my information from.
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby health4ni on Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:57 pm

a very important point to remember here is that she believes she is correct because that is what the majority of the literature she has learnt from, and continues to learn from, says. So why would she not believe that? Indeed, the Govnt and doctors will tell you the same. They are incorrect to blanket statement say that all saturated fats are bad. But there you go. You need to ensure that the answers you give in exam questions and coursework etc are the answers the marker wants to here... sad but true.

btw even cholesterol is a myth... the body produces it in higher amounts as almost a last ditch attempt to "save" itself. It's a preservation act by the body. Also, there was a study this year or last year showing that people with low cholesterol were actually more at risk from heart disease! Anyway, cholesterol is another discussion lol
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Re: saturated fat and teachers views!

Postby Alex on Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:03 pm

Sounds to me that she's using a syllabus from the 1950's to teach you. Not exactly setting a good example to her students if she won't take on board other opinions and views on the subject.

You should get her to sign up here and be educated...
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