Allright guys, Introduced myself in this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2536 so i wont bother with all that stuff.

I'm training for american football which starts at the end of this month, so i'll be following the west side for skinny bastards template outlined in this link:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459321

This allows for energy systems work to fit around the schedule, only difference being is that I might change the legs day to just heavy squats and deads, depends how much it takes out of me really.

First day back after a month off today, and heres what I did:

Monday - ME Upper

Maximal effort lift - Weighted Dips
Bw x 8
Bw x 5
+5kg x 5
+10kg x 3
+15kg x 3
+20kg x 3 (Previous best was +35kg)

Supplemental Lift - Dumbbell Flat Bench
27.5kg x 6
27.5kg x 6
27.5kg x 6

Horizontal Row - Dumbell BOR
27.5kg x 10
27.5kg x 10
27.5kg x 10

Rear Delt/Upper Back - Cable face pulls
4th plate x 10
5th plate x 10
5th plate x 10

Abs - Hanging BW leg raises
3 sets of 15

Comments:
Not too bad, i've lost as much strength as i thought i would. The only thing i was suprised about was dumbbell bench, they where pretty tought which is suprising when my previous PB was 50kg x 3. I suppose i usually do them fresh but still. Killer DOMS to be expected tommorow.

On a tangent, my appitite after training today has been ridiculous, 4000kcals at least and i'm still hungry.

Considered doing some plyo on lower days?

Dipping strength is still good so more than likely it's secondary muscle groups having effect on lost of DB Press strength as well as form/stabilisers. You'll probably notice more of a dip in Shoulder strength when you get to doing them.

Rilla wrote:Considered doing some plyo on lower days?

Thats a good idea mate, i'm not to sure what i'll be doing on lower days quite yet. For the first few weeks i'll probaly just do whats outlined in the article. But I feel I need to put some speed work in somewhere.

Alex wrote:Dipping strength is still good so more than likely it's secondary muscle groups having effect on lost of DB Press strength as well as form/stabilisers. You'll probably notice more of a dip in Shoulder strength when you get to doing them.

Sounds about right, my shoulders have lost quite a noticeable amount of size. So I wouldn't be surprised if they were the limiting factor.

good luck with the training, i find it odd how you have chosen to do westside training but use dips as your main upper body lift though.

ash fletcher wrote:good luck with the training, i find it odd how you have chosen to do westside training but use dips as your main upper body lift though.

Forgot to add i'll be rotating all the ME exercises every 2 weeks, so weighted dips for the next two weeks, then bench etc. I dont like bench anyway as It aggrivates my shoulder for some reason, I figured I dont want to be injured within the first week of getting back training so i'll take some time to get my shoulder back up to speed before I start heavy benching.

Tuesday - Me Lower

Squats - Powerlifting stance
bar x 20
60 x 8
70 x 5
80 x 3
90 x 3
100 x 3
100 x 3
100 x 4

Deads - Sumo Stance
60kg x 8
100 x 3
120 x 3
130 x 3
140 x 3
140 x 3
140 x 2

Comments:

Jesus Christ, even though its been 6 weeks since I last squatted I wasn't expecting to be that weak. All the reps were slow and the 100x4 was tough. Deads on the other hand weren't to bad all the reps were explosive.

Not to worry, it is only the first week back and on the plus side I discovered a new area in the new gym I go to hidden away.. fully equipped with 3 Olympic platforms, a bloody good bench and a monolift!!

A lad at work plays American footie and keeps a photo album of all his injuries ! I think you guys are nuts

RoB wrote: Not to worry, it is only the first week back and on the plus side I discovered a new area in the new gym I go to hidden away.. fully equipped with 3 Olympic platforms, a bloody good bench and a monolift!!

Result!!

bad idea to rotate every two weeks imo, not enough time. Try 4-6 weeks. 2 weeks is for the guys who have been lifting for 10years and have each lift perfected imo. I just switch the lift when i hit a plateau, its stupid to switch lifts when you've still got potential for 5 more weeks of pb's. Im only saying this because i've been there and even rotating tri-weekly is too much.

btw, avatar, amazing.

Karlos wrote:bad idea to rotate every two weeks imo, not enough time. Try 4-6 weeks. 2 weeks is for the guys who have been lifting for 10years and have each lift perfected imo. I just switch the lift when i hit a plateau, its stupid to switch lifts when you've still got potential for 5 more weeks of pb's. Im only saying this because i've been there and even rotating tri-weekly is too much.

btw, avatar, amazing.

Hmm good points, I defiantly wont be changing the ME lower exercises around for a long time,I don't think I'll plateau with squats until I get back up to 160kg which could take a couple of months. All I'm going to do is gradually add volume once I adapt to the workload again.

With ME upper I'll be switching every 3 weeks I think, mainly because I feel I need to interchange between shoulder dominate and chest dominate exercises as the maximal effort lift. To be fair this could be all bullshit so tell me if it is lol

Good stuff. Your strength will soon come back and I'm sure you'll add some more mass as well.

Diet today:

Breakfast:-
50g Whey
1 Pint of full fat milk
55P/30.6C/26F 590kcal

Lunch:-
300g steak
89/3/14 501kcal

Dinner:-
500g lamb mince
chopped tomms, onions, pepers
100g cheese
118/23/127 1710kcal

Snacks
100g Green and blacks 70%
9.3/36/41 551kcal

Totals 272/93/210 3350ish kcals

About what I was aiming for, as long as Carbs are under 100 and protein around 250 I don't really care so I'll post this up every couple of weeks just to see where I'm at.

That's fair enough, you're not a powerlifter so it shouldn't matter massively. Although if i were you i would just do heavy chest first, any variation (perhaps varying this tri-weekly), then heavy shoulders in the same session, after some back. Horizontal 'chest' exercises should be ME because you're using more musculature and you will be battering your shoulders. Then you can hit your shoulders more specifically with some lighter 5rm OH pressing.

say-

decline BB bench - Ramped ME (1-3RM)

weighted chins - ramped to 5RM

HC to PP - ramped to 5RM

Diet could be alittle more spread out, nothing ott, but 5 meals beats 3. 3 meals and 2 shakes is what i go for.

Holly cow thats alot of mince for one sitting. Good on ya mate

Karlos wrote:That's fair enough, you're not a powerlifter so it shouldn't matter massively. Although if i were you i would just do heavy chest first, any variation (perhaps varying this tri-weekly), then heavy shoulders in the same session, after some back. Horizontal 'chest' exercises should be ME because you're using more musculature and you will be battering your shoulders. Then you can hit your shoulders more specifically with some lighter 5rm OH pressing.

say-

decline BB bench - Ramped ME (1-3RM)

weighted chins - ramped to 5RM

HC to PP - ramped to 5RM

Diet could be alittle more spread out, nothing ott, but 5 meals beats 3. 3 meals and 2 shakes is what i go for.

Cheers for the input mate, I always liked HC to PP so i'll give that set up a go next week. What you reacon keep dips for another 3 weeks and then go to flat or decline? or just switch to bench now?

Regards to diet, sometimes I spread the mince out to 2 two meals but most of the time i cant be botherd so i just cram it down in one go lol. That was just non-workout day diet, I have 3 whole food meals and 2 shakes on training days.

Rab wrote:Holly cow thats alot of mince for one sitting. Good on ya mate

haha yeah it took a while to get to my pig like stomach capacity but I can pretty much eat limitless amounts of meat now

Yeah, great exercise init. Keep at the dips, better than bench, flat BB anyways. Best chest dominant exercises imo are dips, decline BB and DBs flat or decline.

Fookin hell, 500g in one most i've hacked is 400g, then again that was with aload of veg, so maybe i win.

Friday - Repetition Upper

Decline bench - 60 seconds rest
bar x 10
40kg x 10
60kg x 10
70kg x 8
70kg x 8
70kg x 9

Dumbbell Tricep extensions
32.5kg x 5
27.5 x 5
27.5 x 5
drop set
20 x 8

Close grip lat pull down
40kg x 8
60kg x 8
60kg x 10
70kg x 5

Seated barbell shoulders
30kg x 5
37.5kg x 5
45kg x 3

Dumbbell curls
2 sets of 15kg x 10

Comments:
Decline was pretty good, didn't seem to bother my shoulder like flat. Hopefully the weights will start shooting back up on that. Triceps at the moment are clearly the weakest link in my pressing, decline weights were flying off the chest but stalling at lockout so going to keep triceps work on these days heavy with low reps. Shoulder press was much the same problem stalling at lock out.

For Triceps I found a combination of CGPB with 4 second negatives or doing them Paused.

Dips in the same manner also work well.

Monday - ME lower

Squat - Wide stance
Bar x 10
40 x 5
60 x 3
80 x 3
90 x 3
105 x 3 +5kg on last week

Sumo deads
60 x 3
100 x 3
140 x 3
150 x 1
160 x 1
165 x 1

Cardio:-
treadmill intervals, 1 minute on 4, 6 and then 8 repeated 4 times - 12mins total

Comments:
Held back on the squats to see where I'm at on deads, 105 was easy didn't have a mirror to check depth so just went as far as I'm flexible enough which is about 2" below. Deads where all right, had about another 5kg in the tank... next week I'll go for a triple on 165. Cardio was terrible, didn't realize how terrible my endurance is, 20 minute cardio after each workout and 2 sprints a week from now I think.

I've also decided that training legs once a week and upper twice a week is a stupid idea, I'll stick to the main outline of the WS4SB template but interchange the repetition days between lower and upper.

RoB, how do you find sumo in comparison to regular DL. I've never tried sumo style, so would be interested in your thoughts.

Sumo Deadlifts lessen the ROM and so are not the best Deadlift variation for those seeking the benefits that Deadlifting brings.

For Powerlifters that use such an exercise then fine, but for most other people I would consider the Sumo Deadlift an occasional/rare exercise to perform.

Remember: ROM is very important and 99% of the time increasing the ROM benefits an exercise and it's results.

health4ni wrote:Sumo Deadlifts lessen the ROM and so are not the best Deadlift variation for those seeking the benefits that Deadlifting brings.

Normal it is then! Thank you guru of the north

hmm well, unfortunately I just cant deadlift conventional, I'm not sure why but I think it might have something to do with my abnormally long legs (37" inner leg) and relatively short body. Whenever I've tried conventional I've come out with a twinge in my back so I steer well clear. One thing I have found is that ever since I've started wide squats and deads I've become very hip and ass dominant, quad development is pretty poor compared to upper thighs and glutes. Its a good exercise to stick in every so often, but if you can dead regular without any problems I'd stick to that 75% of the time. Either way its still an awesome posterior chain exercise.

Sure. I was comparing Sumo Deadlifts with other Deadlift variations.

Sumo Deadlifting is far better than not deadlifting at all.

And your hip dominance is due to wide squats & Sumo deads... as you know.

You've likely got some inflexibility issues caused by your body shape & long legs. A good physio should be able to help. People with long legs & short bodies CAN ATG squat and deadlift conventionally... assuming they have no issues with flexibility etc. It's a common myth.