I dont know if everyone here visits tnation daily, but i read this article and the one thing that made me go 'oh yeah!' was the final bit about pullups.
Although you may use 'more' lats relative to biceps on pullups, it doesn't mean that the strain is detracted from the lats during chinups, it just means chinups are a more 'complete' exercise allowing the biceps to come into play more along side the lats, enabling you to use more weight/reps, perhaps training the lats better.

read here if you wish for a better explanation

http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_re ... ons_part_2

Haven't read the article yet but I can't remember the last time I did pullups, they aren't good for my shoulders... Chins are the Daddy

Chins all the way!

I like both and they each hit my back hard, if a little differently. I currently do a few sets of each...

I don't really see it as an either/or thing. There's so many permutations of pull-ups (that includes chins as they're a type of pull-up) that hit different muscles/motor units that I'd say it's wise to become proficient in as many of them as possible.

Subscapularis chin ups would rank as being one of the hardest to perform. Absolute killers.

I have to say that the best pull-up exercise I've ever done was with one of those 'hammer bars' where the grip is palms facing and about 12 inches apart. I wedged the thing in the rafters of my garage and did pull-ups on that and my lats and mid-back grew more with that exercise than anything else!

Need to get a new one of those and rig something up again...

Dtlv74 wrote:I have to say that the best pull-up exercise I've ever done was with one of those 'hammer bars' where the grip is palms facing and about 12 inches apart. I wedged the thing in the rafters of my garage and did pull-ups on that and my lats and mid-back grew more with that exercise than anything else!

Need to get a new one of those and rig something up again...

Yes...our pullup station has a hammer grip pullup bit. its very good as the grip is comfortable and very natural. it also lets you have your body at an angle (legs forward, head back) which i find lets you get a better contraction of the lats.

As said, the chin (or hammer chin) variation brings in the biceps more, but not necessarily less lat. ill do a set of the close grip hammers after wide grip and let my biceps assist a little more.....well i have started this recently, we will see how it goes.

Rab

I do chins, and I should do more. Funnily enough, both movements involve a bit of chest and triceps too if you do them from a strict dead hang (think about it, your humerus is moving through a similar motion to a barbell pullover.

Hmm, chest maybe slightly, but if your biceps are contracting then im sure there wouldnt be much tricep activation going on.

The triceps are recruited a bit pulling the elbow toward the ribcage.

I don't really feel it in the chest or tris, but I do struggle to do them when my tris are fatigued.

i cant do either anyway.

Orinoco wrote:I don't really see it as an either/or thing. There's so many permutations of pull-ups (that includes chins as they're a type of pull-up) that hit different muscles/motor units that I'd say it's wise to become proficient in as many of them as possible.

Subscapularis chin ups would rank as being one of the hardest to perform. Absolute killers.

great post, agree with this.

Chins are prob better for biceps, but variation is the key to a big back esp when using pull-ups/chin-ups

Yeah, i wasn't saying neglect variation, i was just pointing out that pullups are not better at 'targeting' the lats than chins, which is certainly what i was lead to believe.

burningnun wrote:The triceps are recruited a bit pulling the elbow toward the ribcage.

Sorry i still can't see this at all?

burningnun wrote:The triceps are recruited a bit pulling the elbow toward the ribcage.

I don't really feel it in the chest or tris, but I do struggle to do them when my tris are fatigued.

If that's the case I'd be inclined to say you're pulling from your hands instead of your elbows? Sounds a bit daft but I find it makes a huge difference in engaging the lats optimally on most back exercises.

Yeah, I've heard that a lot and it certainly is hard to get the mind-muscle connection right. Lately I have been doing underhand rows from the floor instead of pullups and these are working very well.

The way i see it, if the biceps are contracting against a force, why would your body want to engage the triceps an any way at all? This would act against the biceps,effectively increasing the load! it's just illogical, isn't it?

Mind-muscle connection? bah, just lift the damn weight!

Well the triceps insert on the scapula aswell as the ulna. I think of it in a similar way as the hamstrings engaging as a hip extensor in the squat while the quads work as a knee extensor.