I'm just putting the finishing touches to my planned maintenance/lean bulking diet having already started to taper up to my planned calorie levels.

I definitely get on better with a higher protein intake but I'm slightly concerned about using protein as an energy substrate. My planned macros at the moment are 360g / 245g / 90g (P/C/F) on training days and 275g / 90g / 145g on rest days. Bodyweight will be 81kg or thereabouts.

Any thoughts on this? I'll be looking to eat very close to maintenance for my first cycle of epistane.

No its not..I know others may say so otherwise.....but Ive had the best gains, on and off gear, with 400 to 500g protein....with carbs only pre and post.....

KP

Could you's give a quick breakdown of the foods that get you's up to the 360g for Ollie and the 400-500 for KP. Im interested to see how you's get there.

Cheers

I'm the same. I have no issues with protein being used for fuel if I increase my consumption.

Good stuff. I've definitely had better results in terms of strength and lean gains at my highest protein intakes previously, but I've never gone this high.

Rab - I've just copied and pasted this from a word table so sorry for the formatting

360g:

80g oats
150ml semi milk
1 tsp honey
25g WPC80
25g MPC
2g fish oil
140g chicken breast
80g broccoli
1 tomato
20g mixed nuts
2g fish oil
220g lean steak mince
35g wholegrain rice
½ onion
200g chopped tomato
Spinach
Chilli & garlic
220g lean steak mince
35g wholegrain rice
½ onion
200g chopped tomato
Spinach
Chilli & garlic
20g pulse
10g WPC80



15g BCAA
10g WMS 40g WMS
5g creapure

20 minutes later:
25g WPC80
20g MPC
200g lean red meat
150g sweet potato
Cabbage
Curly kale
Garlic
2g fish oil
40g MPC
50g mixed berries
30ml double cream

Rab

WPC80, Beef (into burgers), chiken..but Majority of my protein I drink...never had an issue...

KP

my protein must be over 300g although i have never counted caloried/macros with any precision

main sources today appx.
200g whey (160g)
200g chicken breast (40g)
180g beef (44g)
420g steak (92g)
300ml milk (10g)

Thats guess figures from me...which = 346g. Not including the protein from non-complete sources.

Similar to me then - in fact I'd say our macros are pretty similar, although I go for a lower carb intake on rest days.

should i count the proteins from other sources like pitta bread (9g appx) etc?

I need to get a crash course from someone on counting calories/macros some time soon as i need to tighen my belt a little

I get my numbers from http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk. As I really only tend to vary my protein sources (between different fish and meats) and between rest and training days I think it's a good resource for the purpose.

You can sign up free for 48 hours using fake email addresses and it doesn't need card details. Just pay attention to some of the user-added products (especially supps) as the entries are wildly inaccurate. Fats in 1g of fish oil are out by a factor of 10, for example

Only thing I noticed when going very high protein is if I don't wash my gym clothes straight away they have a strong smell of ammonia the next day.

You still high protein now mate?

Yes. I can smell him from 400 Miles away

Bison wrote:Only thing I noticed when going very high protein is if I don't wash my gym clothes straight away they have a strong smell of ammonia the next day.

This is where OKG kicks in as an amonia carrier.

imo, pointless. Why would you want to use protein for energy? It will either turn to glucose or you will piss it out. Brings a new meaning to pissing away your money! I just don't see any benefits going beyond what your body will use, other than thermo effect.

Anyone like to share?

Karlos wrote:imo, pointless. Why would you want to use protein for energy? It will either turn to glucose or you will piss it out. Brings a new meaning to pissing away your money! I just don't see any benefits going beyond what your body will use, other than thermo effect.

Anyone like to share?

How do you know what you will use?

Theres a conversion factor from protein to Glucose

NOT taking high carbs, but high protein caused your body to use MORE calories to a)use the protein b)convert it

With this in mind you get to cut and bulk at the same time......via nutrient partionining. (you dont have the highs and lows of carbs)

KP

Alex wrote:

Bison wrote:Only thing I noticed when going very high protein is if I don't wash my gym clothes straight away they have a strong smell of ammonia the next day.

This is where OKG kicks in as an amonia carrier.

citrulline malate too !!

ollie wrote:You still high protein now mate?

High-ish, as in between 300g-350g a day.

Rab wrote:Yes. I can smell him from 400 Miles away

No that ammonia smell is from your hair styling collection

Rab wrote:should i count the proteins from other sources like pitta bread (9g appx) etc?

I need to get a crash course from someone on counting calories/macros some time soon as i need to tighen my belt a little

Just wite down the macros of everything you eat once and then you just multiply by what your eating - it's a bit of maths but I nevr need to do it - if I want to invent something new, I have the scribblings I made all stored togeher.

It's ok taking macros from sites but they differ brand to brand on a few things. It's worthwhile getting rough figures from them if you shop at butchers for example when the macros aren't printed on the packaging. Personally, with the deals in store and 10% discount, I find Asda cheaper. I don't much care if my cow was serially buggered by a rampant froggy farmer or was fed on hens brains as long as it's got the basics...

kp1512 wrote:How do you know what you will use?

Theres a conversion factor from protein to Glucose

NOT taking high carbs, but high protein caused your body to use MORE calories to a)use the protein b)convert it

With this in mind you get to cut and bulk at the same time......via nutrient partionining. (you dont have the highs and lows of carbs)

KP

Well majority of studies have shown no benefits over 1g per lb of bodyweight? and its a sure sign your wasting alot when you smell like urea.

You also become very efficient at using your own bodily protein for energy which is always a bonus.

I think for cutting purposes high protein has the obvious benefits, but when trying to add muscle, manipulation of carbs and fat is a more sensible option.

or how about lots of everything

Karlos wrote:

kp1512 wrote:How do you know what you will use?

Theres a conversion factor from protein to Glucose

NOT taking high carbs, but high protein caused your body to use MORE calories to a)use the protein b)convert it

With this in mind you get to cut and bulk at the same time......via nutrient partionining. (you dont have the highs and lows of carbs)

KP

Well majority of studies have shown no benefits over 1g per lb of bodyweight? and its a sure sign your wasting alot when you smell like urea.

You also become very efficient at using your own bodily protein for energy which is always a bonus.

I think for cutting purposes high protein has the obvious benefits, but when trying to add muscle, manipulation of carbs and fat is a more sensible option.

See what Karlos says makes sense to me and fits with my understanding... butyet so many people claim improved rate of gain on very high protein. My thought with that is it may well work, but what happens if you suddenly drop protein intake? I'd guess big time catabolism until you adjust.

I'm looking at a bit of an increase in kcals at the mo to try and push really hard for some extra gains in the next month or so, and have upped my protein a little already. I think I'm gonna stay cautious at the moment though - my standard macros are around P/C/F 30/30/30 with a floating 10%, and I don't think I'll go any higher than 35% protein and will try and get the increased kcals across the board.

ash fletcher wrote:or how about lots of everything

Ha - you summed it up in a sentence and I wrote an essay (typical Dtlv74 posting!)!!!

I agree with whats said about excess protein in theory but in practice it agree's well with me.

I've tried obtaining the extra calories from carbs or from fat but in the end I always react better taking them from protein. Whether this is right or wrong I can't very well argue with something that appears to work for me.

Alex wrote:I agree with whats said about excess protein in theory but in practice it agree's well with me.

I've tried obtaining the extra calories from carbs or from fat but in the end I always react better taking them from protein. Whether this is right or wrong I can't very well argue with something that appears to work for me.

So what would you advocate to a 100kger trying to drop 5kgs, who is going gym 4 times a week and jogging twice? sounds fit whoever he is....

2500cals?
400g protein?
fat?
carbs?

Just out of interest.

Have you ever tried something like the anabolic diet? you know i'd really love you to give it a good try, would be very interesting.