Hi all

Wasn’t really sure where to put this one so thought I would plump for Beginner’s as I am one!

I have always had real trouble with my sleep. A case of never being able to get a full decent night without constantly waking up, and not being able to sleep in if I need to (once I’m awake I’m awake). I find it very hard to settle generally.

I have tried Valerian but that wasn’t all that good for me. Taurine has helped me shut off somewhat and I get to sleep better and seem to sleep through a bit better but I am just as tired the next day.

Has anyone else got any suggestions? I’ve tried all the usual - warm milk, not being on the computer too close to bed time, no caffeine past certain o’clock, relaxations tapes blah blah blah. Obviously proper sleeping tablets aren’t really an answer because I know they interfere with the REM sleep which is the bit you really need.

I am typing this in desperation...I thought I had got a decent sleep last night but since about 2pm I have been fighting so hard to stay awake and had to go and hide in the toilet for 10 mins just to close my eyes!!!

Any ideas or suggestions would be SOOOOOO welcome!!!

Thanks guys

I don't sleep very well but I suffer from PTSD and wake up most nights, however what I do when I wake helps me get back to sleep and that is to say to myself, "the" every coupl of seconds. It stops the mind concentrating on a subject and then I can get back to sleep.

Also, turn upsiode down so your feet are against the headboard helps. Also cissus helps sleep, but BSD is currently out of stock, when in well worth getting for numerous reasons just do a seach on here.

Thanks AGAIN Si. I also suffer from PTSD and anxiety/depression which is part of the problem but its doing my head in again! Vicious circle.

Will go looksie...sorry if I should have done first. I think it was a moment bordering on hysteria that drove me to it rather than looking first!

And will give "THE" a go!

Sorry peeps, should have looked first. I was just in that ready to scream and claw the walls mode...soooo tired!!!

Anyhoo...

Found this thread

http://www.esnpro.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3188&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=sleep

so should be well armed.

Do apologise but I cite tiredness as my excuse!

A common topic on fitness forums this one! Other than techniques of relaxation there are quite a few supplements which have an effect on sleep...

Taurine: (as you mention) can work as an inhibitory neurotransmitter and help relaxation.

GABA: is 'the daddy' of inhibitory neurotransmitters and the one that is primarily responsible for relaxation and can have a prfound effect on improving sleep. GABA has a few mild side effects when you take it, including a brief period (5-10mins) when you get all tingly and a few seconds your breathing becomes a bit tight, but this is normal and harmless. GABA cannot be sold in the UK but is available to buy from outside and is not illegal to obtain or use.

ZMA: induces heavier sleep, although sometimes also wierd dreams.

Melatonin: melatonin being the hormone which regulates sleep, this is perhaps the very best supplement to take and it can work very well to help regulate poor sleeping patterns. like GABA, you cannot buy it in the UK but its fine to order it from an international supplier.

Vitamin C: Vit C can help as it both suppresses cortisol (one of the hormones responsible for wakefulness), and works as an antioxidant... oxidative stress can keep people awake (is responsible for not sleeping due to frequent trips to the toilet where you only pee a few drops!). You need to dose fiarly high for vit C to work in this capacity, around 1,000mg shortly before sleep.

Other things which can help are certain scents and smells... lavender and jasmine have both been shown by studies to induce better sleep. Beyond that a late night carb feed can make you sleepy, although if done frequently it will also help you get fat!

The best things to be honest though i find are focusing on breathing and relaxing that way, although can be hard to do if you are in a state of anxiety. Pillows under your knees or your feet are also worth a try!

Pingu wrote:Thanks AGAIN Si. I also suffer from PTSD and anxiety/depression which is part of the problem but its doing my head in again! Vicious circle.

Will go looksie...sorry if I should have done first. I think it was a moment bordering on hysteria that drove me to it rather than looking first!

And will give "THE" a go!

Cissus is a great supplement.

Also want is excellent for stress is Rhodiola Rosea and I take this on waking every day. (But ask GB about the side effect it gives her!)

I was going to suggest GABA. I have sleep problems due to my eratic shift pattern & GABA certainly has helped.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/gaba.html

If you cannot get to sleep due to your mind being active and thinking about problems then try this visualization technique.

Whilst in bed imagine yourself getting out of bed and putting a box outside of your bedroom door. Then slowly place all your problems one at a time within this box. When all your problems are packed away then put the lid on the box, close the bedroom door and go to sleep.

It sounds a bit farfetched and it takes time to develop the technique but it can work.

Top idea Res! No that doesn't sound far fetched. I actually do something similar when I am trying to keep the nasties in my memory under control - I actually visualise boxes then!!! It’s helped me with that so you could well have spotted something here!!

GABA - is that similar to Taurine? Not so good at understanding scientific speak...

P.S. That is such a COOOOL avatar!!!! I am a Star Wars freak (only the REAL Star Wars films. Not the recent tripe) so am loving it!

Chelated Magnesium with my final 2 meals has improved my sleep.Even better when combined with Cissus,as previously mentioned.

Just remembered that Paul McKenna (NLP Practioner) has just published some info on sleep. This may help:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... sleep.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... iques.html

Check online tomorrow for part 3

simon m wrote:Also want is excellent for stress is Rhodiola Rosea and I take this on waking every day. (But ask GB about the side effect it gives her!)

Hmm. This sounds dodgy!

Wow. I'm gonna have to win the lottery at this rate!

Pingu wrote:

simon m wrote:Also want is excellent for stress is Rhodiola Rosea and I take this on waking every day. (But ask GB about the side effect it gives her!)

Hmm. This sounds dodgy!

It is!

Uh oh.....maybe I will stay stressed....do I even WANT to know what it is?!!!

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE!

You have all given me some great advice here. It is much appreciated!!!!

Anything with tryptophan before you go to bed is good in addition to the things Det mentioned

Turkey, cod and cheese are pretty good sources.

5-HTP can also help.

Yes, 5-htp is defo a good move if your sleep issues are stress-related (which it sounds as though yours are) though not one to rely on for too long IMO.

If you have difficulty getting off to sleep in the first place then tune in to Aunti Beeb and drift off to the soothing sounds of the Shipping Forecast

I'm too much of a gentleman to suggest the obvious.

Rorschach wrote:I'm too much of a gentleman to suggest the obvious.

Doesn't work for women mate - that just want to talk more and cuddle!

simon m wrote:

Rorschach wrote:I'm too much of a gentleman to suggest the obvious.

Doesn't work for women mate - that just want to talk more and cuddle!

Wanking 1 - Sex Nil on that basis

[quote="Pingu"]GABA - is that similar to Taurine? Not so good at understanding scientific speak...[quote]

GABA is a chemical thats in your brain (and throughout your body) and is the substance primarily responsible for feelings of relaxation... when your system is low on it you feel edgy and a bit twitchy, when your system has lots of it you feel relaxed. While taking GABA definitely makes you feel more chilled out, its not in anyway a sedative so its quite safe.

Taurine has similar properties although it works slightly differently in that it makes you more relaxed by 'closing off' to distractions... it will calm your mind in the sense that it stops it wandering to a small degree. If you take Taurine in large doses it can actually really 'zone' your focus.

My bedtime stack at the moment is as follows

15g Glutamine
5g Gaba
5g Taurine
5g Glycine
2g Mag citrate

Sometimes I take a healthy dose of Niacin as well. It's a good cheap bet for sucess in the sleep stakes as it's an intermediate step in the process of producing serotonin from tryptophan.

Dtlv74 wrote:

Pingu wrote:GABA - is that similar to Taurine? Not so good at understanding scientific speak...

GABA is a chemical thats in your brain (and throughout your body) and is the substance primarily responsible for feelings of relaxation... when your system is low on it you feel edgy and a bit twitchy, when your system has lots of it you feel relaxed. While taking GABA definitely makes you feel more chilled out, its not in anyway a sedative so its quite safe.

Taurine has similar properties although it works slightly differently in that it makes you more relaxed by 'closing off' to distractions... it will calm your mind in the sense that it stops it wandering to a small degree. If you take Taurine in large doses it can actually really 'zone' your focus.

Thanks for this DT. I actually understood that!!! I didn't take the Taurine last night because I have found I'm too dozy the next day and wanted to see if that's what was doing it. I do feel more awake today and will see what happens later on. Think Taurine may remain for my work outs only as I love the focus it gives me then. Will look into the GABA. See if I can afford it at some point... hmm...my birthday in March...

Spit wrote:Yes, 5-htp is defo a good move if your sleep issues are stress-related (which it sounds as though yours are) though not one to rely on for too long IMO.

If you have difficulty getting off to sleep in the first place then tune in to Aunti Beeb and drift off to the soothing sounds of the Shipping Forecast

Hehehehe...I quite often listen to the Shipping Forecast! It's like a lullaby to a baby!!!!

cleaver wrote:Sometimes I take a healthy dose of Niacin as well. It's a good cheap bet for sucess in the sleep stakes as it's an intermediate step in the process of producing serotonin from tryptophan.

Would Niacin work on its own? Finances are tight so am having to carefully consider what I purchase...

simon m wrote:... however what I do when I wake helps me get back to sleep and that is to say to myself, "the" every coupl of seconds. It stops the mind concentrating on a subject and then I can get back to sleep.

Did it last night. IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!

Pingu wrote:

cleaver wrote:Sometimes I take a healthy dose of Niacin as well. It's a good cheap bet for sucess in the sleep stakes as it's an intermediate step in the process of producing serotonin from tryptophan.

Would Niacin work on its own? Finances are tight so am having to carefully consider what I purchase...

Yes it should help. Aim for 3.5mg per kg of body weight. Niacin can cause a good old flushing feeling but you can get no flush varieties. It would be best to work up to this dose. Starting at 100mg or so.

Thanks Cleaver.

I keep getting woken up by pins and needles in my arms and hands, sometimes quite painful.

I only get this on days when ive trained upper body, apparently is something to do with the muscles swelling from fluid retention and putting pressure on nerves or something.