Starting to think i really need to get more protein in my diet as at 119kg and 90kg lbm, the 160-180g im getting a day is a little low (whats scary is this is on a diet with lots of eggs, meat, cheese, cream, whey... so how little was i getting before i started looking at what i eat???.. how big would i be now if id done things properly from day 1?).

Im currently aiming for about 60-70% fat, 25-35% protein and no more than 30-40g of carbs from good sources (flax seed, veggies, berrys) a day and trying to hit around 3000-3200cals a day.

Based on 18kcals per 1lb of lbm my daily maintainence is about 3600 cals, so 3000-3200 should be decent for taking off some off this lard.. but im finding it really hard to hit the required protein which i guess should be at least 200g a day.

Are all these calculations and assumptions correct, if so the only way i can maintain the 60-70/30-40 F/P split is to up my calories to around 4000 a day which with put me in excess. Fine for 6 months time when im happily sitting at 13-15% BF and ready to put some mass on, but not right now.

My intial thoughts are that protein is too low. You should be looking at 250g Minimum.

You could probably go lower in calories without any worries. Maybe 2500 on rest days. In fact you could go even lower but I think that might be a step too far too soon. It is important to take advantage once your body makes the shift. If the deficit is too low you will virtually be burning body fat to then replace it with the fat eaten in the diet. This is why most high fat dieter losses slow dramatically after the first month or so.

So that would be 250 P = 1000cal, 50 C = 200cal, 150 Fat = 1350cal.

Training days have 100c. Have the extra 50 g in the peri workout window.

Id agree with what Cleaver says.

Id use a BW x 15 multiple, and ramp up Protein to AT LEAST 1g/lb or in your case MINIMUM 225g per day.

225g x 4 cals : 900 Cals

(Body Weight x 15) - 900 cals = Fat cals left

Fat Cals divide by 9 = Fat Grams per day

KP

hmmm wont my body use protein as its primary fuel source then though and convert the protein to glucose?

Marks1972 wrote:hmmm wont my body use protein as its primary fuel source then though and convert the protein to glucose?

it shouldnt do if you are utlising it. If you are training at a decent level then the demand and requirements of the body will process the protein

ahh i see, maybe ive been reading sources that are talking about ketogenic diets from more casual trainees.

Cheers chaps, i shall up the protein from today.

Anything wildly wrong with utilising whey to add an easy 70g protein a day?

1g per lb of BW is the minimum, i did suggest you ramped up your protein alittle when i first saw your plan. Although you are carry a fair amount of fat so i'd say 200g is sufficient. Once you're fat adapted, fat is very protein sparing unlike when you're a sugar burner.

Karlos wrote:1g per lb of BW is the minimum, i did suggest you ramped up your protein alittle when i first saw your plan. Although you are carry a fair amount of fat so i'd say 200g is sufficient. Once you're fat adapted, fat is very protein sparing unlike when you're a sugar burner.

There is a fine balance here of course. Your body has to be breaking down body fat to allow the glycerol to be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis. That said providing you do not go to zero carbs the need to convert anything to glucose will be minimal anyway.

Whey is fine for the extra protein Marks

Karlos wrote:1g per lb of BW is the minimum, i did suggest you ramped up your protein alittle when i first saw your plan. Although you are carry a fair amount of fat so i'd say 200g is sufficient. Once you're fat adapted, fat is very protein sparing unlike when you're a sugar burner.

I know K, i took your advice on board, hence the struggle to try and get enough protein while maintaining what i thought was the correct split

kp1512 wrote:

Marks1972 wrote:hmmm wont my body use protein as its primary fuel source then though and convert the protein to glucose?

it shouldnt do if you are utlising it. If you are training at a decent level then the demand and requirements of the body will process the protein

I think this is a little bit of scare mongering as well.

I knock back 400g or more a day without problem and you train as intensively from what I've seen in your journal.

Cheers chaps, awesome thats theres such a wide range of knowledge and experience here for a noob like me to tap into when needed

Alex wrote:

kp1512 wrote:

Marks1972 wrote:hmmm wont my body use protein as its primary fuel source then though and convert the protein to glucose?

it shouldnt do if you are utlising it. If you are training at a decent level then the demand and requirements of the body will process the protein

I think this is a little bit of scare mongering as well.

I knock back 400g or more a day without problem and you train as intensively from what I've seen in your journal.

I disagree with that, his body may not use protein as a fuel source, but 400g would definitely be risking sabotaging the mechanics of the diet.

Just stick to Doc's prescribed percentages and you won't go wrong. Get 200g of protein, just increase protein by drinking some whey with your last meal if need be. If you're worried about going too high with cals, just knock some off fat, won't make much difference to your percentages given the caloric difference between protein and fat.

PS. Watch out for the carb hangovers. I got pretty dehydrated last night and it felt/feels like i'd been drinking all night.

Karlos wrote:I disagree with that, his body may not use protein as a fuel source, but 400g would definitely be risking sabotaging the mechanics of the diet.

Just stick to Doc's prescribed percentages and you won't go wrong. Get 200g of protein, just increase protein by drinking some whey with your last meal if need be. If you're worried about going too high with cals, just knock some off fat, won't make much difference to your percentages given the caloric difference between protein and fat.

PS. Watch out for the carb hangovers. I got pretty dehydrated last night and it felt/feels like i'd been drinking all night.

Sorry, it came across a bit wrong.

I was saying that due to me being ok on 400g daily, 200g would be fine for him.

lol..ok sorry, i agree with that.

carb hangovers? thats why i'm always fucked!

ash fletcher wrote:carb hangovers? thats why i'm always fucked!

lol they will do you in if you binge on them, im certain of it. I had the exact same symptoms last night that i get when i've been on the piss-

-feel tired and energy-less
-struggle to sleep
-sleep is light/poor quality
-keep waking up with a dry mouth
-wake up feeling dizzy

etc...It must be the carbs sucking all my water in my muscles leaving me dry, despite drinking gallons of water. strange eh. I would choose to not carb-up at all if it didn't help!

pah, and i was looking forward to my low salt beans on wholemeal and jaffa cakes next weekend.

Using Na-RALA after a carb fest will go some way to help curb insulin levels going sky high.

Marks1972 wrote:pah, and i was looking forward to my low salt beans on wholemeal and jaffa cakes next weekend.

It doesn't mean you can't have these things! it may make you feel abit dodgy if you go crazy with the carbs though. I must have had 500g yesterday!