How would you go about this?

I took some pics last night, and my arms (esp tris) are definitely lagging. Chest has come on leaps and bounds, as has back, delts look pretty decent and legs have always been a strong point, but my arms are definitely lagging now. Would like to redress this ASAP, but not sure how to go about it.

I'm currently training full body EOD. I don't think my arms are getting enough of a stimulus but I don't want to make my sessions any longer, so may have to change routines. Would welcome any suggestions.

Small changes to your current routine perhaps? Swap bench press/db bench press for CGBP, swap wide grip chins for close grip pull ups.. that sort of thing.

Do you train arms directly? Maybe you could just introduce/change a few exercise as mark says. Weighted pushups and BB floor press are awesome for triceps, and hammer grip chins are amazing for biceps. Just factor these in for a few months and if you respond anything like i have your guns will grow a fair bit.

Oh and fat gripz have sky rocketed my bicep strength.

The best triceps exercise I know is overhead triceps cable extensions:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... ons&hl=en#

3 sets twice a week to one less then failure. done

Yeah, I'm training them directly. It's not like I'm moving puny weights, either. And form isn't an issue, so it must be down to volume, frequency or intensity.

kp1512 wrote:3 sets twice a week to one less then failure. done

You reckon that's all they need in terms of direct work?

If strength is still good, then it's probably a volume issue, which makes sense since you're doing a full-body split. Maybe add in a quick fourth day for arms/bits and bobs?

I think you're probably right. They definitely respond better to more volume. I think I'll go back to my old body part split and see how I fare with that for a while. At least I know it works for me.

ollie wrote:I think I'll go back to my old body part split and see how I fare with that for a while. At least I know it works for me.

Surely this created the perceived 'lag' in the first place?

Mark gave some good advice. So, do closer grip Dips. CGBP. Floor Press BB & DB.

Make sure you hit the triceps with different rep ranges throughout the week. So, maybe Dip high reps say 12-15 for 2-3 sets. CGBP could be 7-10. Floor Presses could be 2-6.

Maybe do them first in the session for a couple of weeks to see how that works out for you.

Adding more volume is often the wrong thing to do. It will decrease recovery. Also, the research shows that hitting the same muscle group 2 or 3 times a week rather than just once with mega volume is better for size & strength gains.

ollie wrote:Yeah, I'm training them directly. It's not like I'm moving puny weights, either. And form isn't an issue, so it must be down to volume, frequency or intensity.

kp1512 wrote:3 sets twice a week to one less then failure. done

You reckon that's all they need in terms of direct work?

id say - make sure you progress on each session and youll be sorted

maybe spend a bit less time on stuff your already awesoeme at and do a bit more arm work for 4-6 weeks. bit of Triceps after chest and a bit of biceps after back which you could afford to rain back on a little for a month

Id do 1 compound and then 1 isolation for each muscle. maybe even two isolations with you doing a full body split as it is which is 100% compound anyways. your arms already have the strength in them Maybe they just need isolated a bit.

Not sure that more compounds is the answer as suggested in some of the posts

If you're anything like me then your Triceps need a bit of work to grow as strength isn't the issue. Dips and Floor Press work well for me as compounds and then an isolation such as V-Bar Pushdowns or DB/EZ Extentions do well.

Volume can work with lighter weight and slower reps but then you're just filling up the muscle with blood and giving the illusion of more size due to pump but in the long term you may not be breaking down enough muscle fibres to stimulate regrowth and actual size.

Mine field isn't it?

If you're doing heavy compunds for chest and shoulders you should be getting a fairly good trcieps workout to boot, so my advice is to train the long head of the triceps which is the most difficult to isolate hence the advice I gave regarding over head triceps extensions. If you can improve the long head then your arms will grow.

With regard to biceps, three sets of rest/pause DB preacher curls should work.

I don't think I'd advise directly training arms more than twice a week though.

I'd like to see the pictures. For the obvious reasons and to also assess whether your arms really do look like they're behind or whether it's just a perceived lag, as cleaver says.

simon m wrote:If you're doing heavy compunds for chest and shoulders you should be getting a fairly good trcieps workout to boot, so my advice is to train the long head of the triceps which is the most difficult to isolate hence the advice I gave regarding over head triceps extensions. If you can improve the long head then your arms will grow.

yep, good exercise that.

simon m wrote:With regard to biceps, three sets of rest/pause DB preacher curls should work.

I don't think Ollie should do those due to his elbow. I mentioned that before. Rab said do hammer curls, but I still think it's too much imo. My elnows have thanked me for not doing preachers for a few months now.

simon m wrote:I don't think I'd advise directly training arms more than twice a week though.

I do. But keep the sets low; say 1-2 working sets 2-3 times a week.

CG Chins work wonders also.

I didn't know about the elbow problem, that does make life difficult.

I'd still go with twice a week though, especially if there are elbow problems.

ollie wrote:Mine field isn't it?

Just train the way you find the most enjoyable. Even if it may not be the best way you may get better results as you'll have more enthusiasm for it.

I think you're right Alex. Whatever you do it ends up being a compromise so you may as well go with what you enjoy. Will get something planned out this afternoon.

My elbow only really suffers on pushing movements, and even on those it's more or less ok now. Don't really want to make it worse though.

Will give OH rope extensions a go, and try to put some new pics up tonight. They do lag, though!

Ollie, have you seen A Night At The Roxbury? Very funny Will Ferrell film, and features the immortal line "guys, I'm worried about your triceps."

Do you have a set of DBs at home? There is a Waterbury article on T-Nation called something like '100 reps to bigger muscles' that I read a while back; iirc he basically advocates 50 reps in the morning and 50 at night, using a weight you'd fail with at about 65 reps- this all on top of your regular routine. I haven't tried it but the logic in the article seemed sound enough, might be worth having a read if you're after some of that 'blue sky thinking' you London exec types are so fond of.

Just start training them twice a week once with the compounds (dips, cgbp, floor press, cgbp off pins) and once with isolations. If your doing a BP split then do

Mon: Shoulders and Arms
Tues: Quads and calfs

Thurs: Chests and tri's
Fri: Back, hamstrings, bi's and calfs

on thurs and friday do the bi's and tri's first.

agree it is a minefield bring up lagging BP's

Craig wrote:Just start training them twice a week once with the compounds (dips, cgbp, floor press, cgbp off pins) and once with isolations. If your doing a BP split then do

Mon: Shoulders and Arms
Tues: Quads and calfs

Thurs: Chests and tri's
Fri: Back, hamstrings, bi's and calfs

on thurs and friday do the bi's and tri's first.

agree it is a minefield bring up lagging BP's

Looks sensible and not a million miles off what I was thinking of doing. Thanks Craig

The only rule I'd say that's a certainty if you need to bring up arm development is fullbody splits and heavily abbreviated routines won't cut it. My arms don't grow unless I dedicate special work to them, use higher reps and moderate volume.

Am not going to suggest a split for you - you know what works best for you, but will suggest doing two exercises for biceps, three for triceps and one for the brachialis/upper forearm each for three working sets. I like training bi's and tri's together but they grow equally well trained apart.

That's the conclusion I've come to Det. In fact it's one of the reasons I stopped FB training in the first place, all those years ago. I guess this just highlightshe point that there's no 1-size fits all approach. Something that people seem to forget all too easily IMO.

Here's what I'm going to run with. Will mean arms get hit 2x a week, and I've selected the exercises so everything gets hit 2x a week (1x primarily and 1x secondarily) apart from legs, which for me seem to respond well to higher volume anyway.

Day 1 - Chest & Bis:

A1: Hammer grip chin [3-0-X-0]: 3 x 8-12
75s rest
B1: Incline myotatic 1 ¼ DB curl [4-0-X-0]: 3 x 6-8
75s rest

C1: 30° incline DB press [3-0-X-0]: 3 x 8-12
75s rest
D1: 45° incline smith press [4-0-X-0]: 3 x 8-12
75s rest
E1: Weighted press-up [2-0-X-0]: 3 sets to failure
75s rest
F1: Cable x-over [2-0-X-0]: 2 x 8 -12
75s rest


Day 2 - Legs:

A1: Front squat [3-0-X-0]: 4 x 3-6
75s rest
B1: RDL [4-0-X-0]: 4 x 6-8
75s rest
C1: Sprinter’s squat [3-0-X-0]: 3 x 8-12
75s rest
D1: Leg curl [4-0-X-0]: 3 x 8-12
75s rest
E1: Unilateral leg press calf-raise [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 15
75s rest


Day 3 – Back & Tris:

A1: Dip [3-0-X-0]: 4 x 3-6
75s rest
B1: CGBP [3-1-X-0]: 4 x 3-6
75s rest

C1: Rack pull [1-1-X-1]: 4 x 5-8
90s rest
D1: Bent over row [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 6-10
75s rest
E1: Medium grip chin [3-0-X-0]: 3 x 6-8
75s rest
F1: T-bar row [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 6-8
75s rest


Day 4 - Shoulders & Gunz:

SS A1: Hang clean to push-press [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 5
SS A2: Seated calf-raise [1-3-X-1]: 3 x 8-12
120s rest
B1: DB shoulder press [3-0-X-0]: 3 x 8-12
75s rest
SS C1: DB lateral raise [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 6-10
SS C2: Prone rear raise [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 8-12
75s rest

SS C1: Hammer curl [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 6-8
SS C2: Laying cable curl [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 10
75s rest

SS C1: CGBP [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 6-8
SS C2: Overhead triceps extension [2-0-X-0]: 3 x 10
75s rest