Got my second programme from Stan now, and just wanted to run it past you guys, see what you think.

Couple of points to note first:

1. After much discussion, we decided to retain the front squats the same as I have been doing for now. This is mainly to do with the wonky arm. When it next comes round to a revamp, we will look at the issue again and see if perhaps trying free squats would be possible. Give me a bit more training and strength building time before I look at changing this for the moment.

2. Due to the fact they need absolute spot on technique to prevent injury, we have decided to leave looking at deadlifts until after my swim season. Plus, with the season and extra training my overall strength should have improved by then, so I will be better placed to try this.

Now the programme

LEGS/BACK/BICEPS (Sun & Wed)

Standing Leg Curl (Single Leg) - 4 x 8
Front Squat - 4 x 8 (woo hoo!)
Single Leg Press - 4 x 8
Seated Calf Raise - 4 x 15
Lat Pulldown (Narrow Grip) - 4 x 8
Chins on Assisted* - 4 x 8
Straight Arm Pulldown - 4 x 10
Preacher Curls** - 4 x 8
Concentration DB Curls - 4 x 8

* When I first started training I had to drop this exercise because of the nerve in my arm. However, the nerve used to hate Cable Crossovers as well, but I no longer have any problems so I would LIKE to try again. I can always keep the weight light and change if necessary.

** On the machine initially (both arms together), but if I don’t get on with that will go to DB.

CHEST/SHOULDERS/TRICEPS (Mon & Thu)

Inc Press Machine - 4 x10
Flyes on Machine - 4 x10
Inc DB Flyes - 4 x10
Cable Fwd Raise - 4 x10
Internal & External Rotator Cuff Exercises - 4 x 15
1 Arm Tricep Extension - 4 x 10
EZ Bar Tricep Press - 4 x10

MY MAIN QUESTION IS....

In order to up the ante on my training (which I really want to do), do you think it would be a good idea to look at introducing some supersets? If so, how best do you think I could incorporate that?

Thanks again!!

re supersets: you've been training for a only a few months right? Then I wouldn't worry about them at the mo tbh.

Its an odd split, whats the reasoning behind it?

*2 on forgetting supersets for now

^^ yeah I think so too.

I was also going to say that your coach likes the old 4 sets & 8 reps doesn't he?

Not that there's anything wrong in it per say, rather that the previous prog looks similar regarding sets & reps.

I like wavelike loading where you do say one month on high reps, low sets (12 reps with 3 sets say) then the next month do (6-8 reps with 4-5 sets). Then after that do 10 reps and 3-4 sets, then 4-6 reps with 5-6 sets.

Also, amending tempo would be good. I suppose that would be an easy thing to do for this new prog: make all the eccentric portions of the lift 3-4secs long. Then say hello to some serious DOMS

health4ni wrote:^^ yeah I think so too.

I was also going to say that your coach likes the old 4 sets & 8 reps doesn't he?

Not that there's anything wrong in it per say, rather that the previous prog looks similar regarding sets & reps.

I like wavelike loading where you do say one month on high reps, low sets (12 reps with 3 sets say) then the next month do (6-8 reps with 4-5 sets). Then after that do 10 reps and 3-4 sets, then 4-6 reps with 5-6 sets.

Also, amending tempo would be good. I suppose that would be an easy thing to do for this new prog: make all the eccentric portions of the lift 3-4secs long. Then say hello to some serious DOMS

He does yes, but I'm not about to argue with him, given the titles he has won he was telling me about today!

BUT...I do like the sound of that wavelength loading, and also the tempo. Especially the tempo, boy do I miss those DOMs!

Would it be best to do one or the other or can the two approaches be combined?

Both can be done.

tbh I'd keep it simple to start with. Just concentrate of taking 3-4secs on the eccentric part for all/most of the exercises (where relevant; DB rows you can't really do that otherwise you're using too light a weight).
Remember to lower the weight though as greater time under tension is harder when reps are kept the same.

That sounds like a plan. Will start off with altering the tempo (I was doing that with the Leg Extension before and pausing at the bottom of the squat). Are there any of my exercises above which aren't relevant to this approach?

Is thereany eason for grouping back legs and biceps in the ne session? Swimming reasons?

I think thats a gash split as you are training at least 3/4 of your body's muscles in one day with that session leaving little for the 2nd day of the split (in relative tems)

Rab wrote:Is thereany eason for grouping back legs and biceps in the ne session? Swimming reasons?

I think thats a gash split as you are training at least 3/4 of your body's muscles in one day with that session leaving little for the 2nd day of the split (in relative tems)

Umm...I couldn't tell you tbh!!! I just ask Stan to do me a programme and et voila! I don't know enough to question it really.

Would it be better to shift them about a bit then?

Pingu wrote:

Rab wrote:Is thereany eason for grouping back legs and biceps in the ne session? Swimming reasons?

I think thats a gash split as you are training at least 3/4 of your body's muscles in one day with that session leaving little for the 2nd day of the split (in relative tems)

Umm...I couldn't tell you tbh!!! I just ask Stan to do me a programme and et voila! I don't know enough to question it really.

Would it be better to shift them about a bit then?

Hmm we're all kind of trying to say its a REAL funny split, I'd want to know why as it goes against all common sense and current training advice.

Craig wrote:Hmm we're all kind of trying to say its a REAL funny split, I'd want to know why as it goes against all common sense and current training advice.

I can't answer that, and I certainly don't feel comfortable saying to someone who has won some of the biggest BB titles you don't know what you are doing! (but I'm not saying there that I don't believe you guys, it's just that I personally have no idea!).

OK..So it's a funny split.

What can I do to change that and make it better? I certainly hear what you are saying...so hit me with it and I will make sure I change it!

Pingu wrote:

Craig wrote:Hmm we're all kind of trying to say its a REAL funny split, I'd want to know why as it goes against all common sense and current training advice.

I can't answer that, and I certainly don't feel comfortable saying to someone who has won some of the biggest BB titles you don't know what you are doing! (but I'm not saying there that I don't believe you guys, it's just that I personally have no idea!).

OK..So it's a funny split.

What can I do to change that and make it better? I certainly hear what you are saying...so hit me with it and I will make sure I change it!

He won the Mr.O

Craig wrote:

Pingu wrote:

Craig wrote:Hmm we're all kind of trying to say its a REAL funny split, I'd want to know why as it goes against all common sense and current training advice.

I can't answer that, and I certainly don't feel comfortable saying to someone who has won some of the biggest BB titles you don't know what you are doing! (but I'm not saying there that I don't believe you guys, it's just that I personally have no idea!).

OK..So it's a funny split.

What can I do to change that and make it better? I certainly hear what you are saying...so hit me with it and I will make sure I change it!

He won the Mr.O

Yup. Mr U Over 40s... and only a couple inches taller than me!

So, what do you reckon then, how should I shift it about?

Im no expert ofc, but just from a laymans pov, the back exercises alone dont seem tailored to a swimmer, 3 vertical pulls and no lower back work at all? I would have thought that WG chins/Pulldowns, DB Row/Cable Row/BOR, Hypers/GMs would have been more beneficial as you pull with your lats in pretty much every direction they can and dont you hyperextend constantly as you bob your head up and down to breath?

Course i could be basing that all on my awful swimming style which has been compared to a fat bloke trying not to drown.. which is pretty much what it is .. but im awesome on the waterslides in Florida.. those little kids cant compete with the speed 120kg+gravity generates

I don't care who your coach is. That routine sucks donkey dick. I cannot see how that will enhance your swimming performance. Think of what you regard the primary muscles for swimming are and then see what exercises will strengthen them. I don't see many in your list.

What days are you swimming an what stroke mainly

In short...this is a good indication of the muscles you use for swimming freestyle...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5TJHgfTubzI

During the off season though I don't swim very much, it's only about once a week! It's only when the season starts (June to September) that I start doing more. The reasons for this a several fold, the majority is the lack of a decent club to swim with, but also to prevent the RSI injuries I already have getting worse.

I would go with a push & pull split based on that

push
Front Squats
Bench Press
Military Press
Lunges

Pull
Romanian Deadlifts
Yates Rows/Bent over bb rows/tbar rows
Assisted Pullups
Bent over side laterals

Basic exercises that work. You might have some learning to do but it would stand you in good stead for the longer run

Rab wrote:I would go with a push & pull split based on that

push
Front Squats
Bench Press
Military Press
Lunges

Pull
Romanian Deadlifts
Yates Rows/Bent over bb rows/tbar rows
Assisted Pullups
Bent over side laterals

Basic exercises that work. You might have some learning to do but it would stand you in good stead for the longer run

Thank you Rab. I don't think I can do the Military Press with my arm though.

I don't mind learning!!! That's why I keep annoyingly asking so many questions.

Will make a note of these and talk to Stan. Help is appreciated.

If you go spking to any PT with suggestions other people have made because their program is not ideal then it will certainly get their back up

Maybe speak to him a suggest you want to learnand focus mor on basic old fashioned compounds? Dont want him throwing the toys out the pram

Yes, I was worried about that! He is nice to me at the moment! To be fair, I've not been entirely focused either which hasn't helped his response to me. I've been so concentrated on losing fat and just getting in some kind of shape (plus with the fact I HATE swimming off season with the club because of the idiot coach) that I've lost sight of what it is I do!! So thanks to you and to everyone else for guiding me back in that direction.

You can call me a coward if you like but am gonna train for a couple of weeks on this and then bring up the possibility of changing it in the way you suggested, saying that with the season coming up I am wondering if I need to take a more focused approach and I need his advice on how best to do that.

Well in that case, simply talk to him again saying you are not sure you"ll be able to cope with a legs/back session twice a week and would like to see if you could make the split more balanced. Or you could see if the pair of you could come up with a full body routine, but 2 of them so you do different exercises in each one but still train everything.

Pingu wrote:Yes, I was worried about that! He is nice to me at the moment! To be fair, I've not been entirely focused either which hasn't helped his response to me. I've been so concentrated on losing fat and just getting in some kind of shape (plus with the fact I HATE swimming off season with the club because of the idiot coach) that I've lost sight of what it is I do!! So thanks to you and to everyone else for guiding me back in that direction.

You can call me a coward if you like but am gonna train for a couple of weeks on this and then bring up the possibility of changing it in the way you suggested, saying that with the season coming up I am wondering if I need to take a more focused approach and I need his advice on how best to do that.

your new to weight training almost anything will work to start with, enjoy it while it lasts , in the long run look to take control of your own training.

Pingu wrote:Got my second programme from Stan now, and just wanted to run it past you guys, see what you think.

Couple of points to note first:

1. After much discussion, we decided to retain the front squats the same as I have been doing for now. This is mainly to do with the wonky arm. When it next comes round to a revamp, we will look at the issue again and see if perhaps trying free squats would be possible. Give me a bit more training and strength building time before I look at changing this for the moment.

2. Due to the fact they need absolute spot on technique to prevent injury, we have decided to leave looking at deadlifts until after my swim season. Plus, with the season and extra training my overall strength should have improved by then, so I will be better placed to try this.

Now the programme

LEGS/BACK/BICEPS (Sun & Wed)

Standing Leg Curl (Single Leg) - 4 x 8
Front Squat - 4 x 8 (woo hoo!)
Single Leg Press - 4 x 8
Seated Calf Raise - 4 x 15
Lat Pulldown (Narrow Grip) - 4 x 8
Chins on Assisted* - 4 x 8
Straight Arm Pulldown - 4 x 10
Preacher Curls** - 4 x 8
Concentration DB Curls - 4 x 8

* When I first started training I had to drop this exercise because of the nerve in my arm. However, the nerve used to hate Cable Crossovers as well, but I no longer have any problems so I would LIKE to try again. I can always keep the weight light and change if necessary.

** On the machine initially (both arms together), but if I don’t get on with that will go to DB.

CHEST/SHOULDERS/TRICEPS (Mon & Thu)

Inc Press Machine - 4 x10
Flyes on Machine - 4 x10
Inc DB Flyes - 4 x10
Cable Fwd Raise - 4 x10
Internal & External Rotator Cuff Exercises - 4 x 15
1 Arm Tricep Extension - 4 x 10
EZ Bar Tricep Press - 4 x10

MY MAIN QUESTION IS....

In order to up the ante on my training (which I really want to do), do you think it would be a good idea to look at introducing some supersets? If so, how best do you think I could incorporate that?

Thanks again!!

When I was reading that I was scratching my head trying to work out why someone would prescribe that for someone who is a swimmer, but then you mention he is a bodybuilder so it kind of figures (some of the movements are purely asthetic). That said if he is some sort of a 'guru' then just follow his advice. I am being trained by a guy who's been in the bb game for 25years, he's trained with the best of the best all over the world and he gets me to do stuff in the gym (and with my diet) that goes against almost everything you read. It does work however. So just follow it (with your safety in mind) and see how it pans out...

One thing I would say though is you need to decide what your training for. Are you looking to get better at swimming? Do you wanna lose fat? get stronger etc etc? I only say this because without specific goals you wont acheive anything (sorry) and if you wanna better your swimming, a bodybuilder wont have the full appreciation of what it takes to be a swimmer in order to precisely prescribe a program that will better your performance.

I'd say if you wanna be a swimmer, get help from a swimmer. If you only swim to for fun then thats different.

There are some England National swimmers on my course at Uni, if I remember when I go back (in 2 weeks) I'll ask them what they do in terms of weights, if your interested.

If not I've totally misread the whole bleedin' thing and need to go to bed - been up for 18 hours now!

GymBunny wrote:Well in that case, simply talk to him again saying you are not sure you"ll be able to cope with a legs/back session twice a week and would like to see if you could make the split more balanced. Or you could see if the pair of you could come up with a full body routine, but 2 of them so you do different exercises in each one but still train everything.

Sounds good...especially the full body idea... am still gonna so this programme for a couple weeks first though so I don't upset him!

Craig wrote:your new to weight training almost anything will work to start with, enjoy it while it lasts , in the long run look to take control of your own training.

I definitely want to take control of my own training, but as you say Craig I am so new to this and I just don't know enough. But am learning!! The thing is I have been enjoying it, which probably hasn't helped the focus on the swimming!

Mike wrote:When I was reading that I was scratching my head trying to work out why someone would prescribe that for someone who is a swimmer, but then you mention he is a bodybuilder so it kind of figures (some of the movements are purely asthetic). That said if he is some sort of a 'guru' then just follow his advice. I am being trained by a guy who's been in the bb game for 25years, he's trained with the best of the best all over the world and he gets me to do stuff in the gym (and with my diet) that goes against almost everything you read. It does work however. So just follow it (with your safety in mind) and see how it pans out...

One thing I would say though is you need to decide what your training for. Are you looking to get better at swimming? Do you wanna lose fat? get stronger etc etc? I only say this because without specific goals you wont acheive anything (sorry) and if you wanna better your swimming, a bodybuilder wont have the full appreciation of what it takes to be a swimmer in order to precisely prescribe a program that will better your performance.

I'd say if you wanna be a swimmer, get help from a swimmer. If you only swim to for fun then thats different.

There are some England National swimmers on my course at Uni, if I remember when I go back (in 2 weeks) I'll ask them what they do in terms of weights, if your interested.

If not I've totally misread the whole bleedin' thing and need to go to bed - been up for 18 hours now!

No Mike, not misread! And don't apologise. I do need to re-evaluate my goals because I've been following the one goal to now (fat loss and improving physique) and that has been my main aim. Now I need to decide which I need to focus on. I'm glad (sort of) I've been given a bit of a hard time by some because it's forced me to look at what I am doing in view of what I want. Need to think about that one, as I am just not sure anymore given how the current position for swimming around here (off season) is.

This is where it is a major problem here in terms of getting help from a swimmer, there just isn't anyone. The club "coach" knows less about swimming than the average rock, and no other clubs here are interested in "masters" swimmers, only the youngsters. I've been round them all.

If you wouldn't mind asking them Mike I would REALLY REALLY appreciate that!!!!!! Thank you!