Alex wrote:I agree with whats said about excess protein in theory but in practice it agree's well with me.

I've tried obtaining the extra calories from carbs or from fat but in the end I always react better taking them from protein. Whether this is right or wrong I can't very well argue with something that appears to work for me.

Well if it works for you then it is right for you (I think dietary theory is incomplete anyway). I don't think anyone is going to dismiss the experiences of others on here (unless someone invites NU to come and post here...)

Karlos wrote:

Alex wrote:I agree with whats said about excess protein in theory but in practice it agree's well with me.

I've tried obtaining the extra calories from carbs or from fat but in the end I always react better taking them from protein. Whether this is right or wrong I can't very well argue with something that appears to work for me.

So what would you advocate to a 100kger trying to drop 5kgs, who is going gym 4 times a week and jogging twice? sounds fit whoever he is....

2500cals?
400g protein?
fat?
carbs?

Just out of interest.

Have you ever tried something like the anabolic diet? you know i'd really love you to give it a good try, would be very interesting.

I wouldn't advocate anything as such as we're all very different.

for myself with 5 days a cardio 400/250/80 works well enough for me but I can go to 450/200/80 and be fine as well. Just depends more on my total volume and cardio output.

As I said before I work on getting my protein and the rest kind of follows. i know roughly what I need to eat and work from how I feel energy wise and what I can see visually and adjust from there.

Don't have any knowledge on Anabolic Diets to be honest as I've never felt the need to stray from whats always worked well.

Fair enough mate, fair 'nuff. Must say i am tempted to boost protein up see if i notice anything. Although im pretty happy with the anabolic diet, i think it's a very decent way to go about things and i've been gradually leaning up pretty effortlessly on 3000cals aday.

If it works then why change it.

I would suggest once you've dropped to and stabilised at 95kg and you're happy then perhaps at this point try out high protein as a method of simply putting on lean muscle mass without the unwanted weight?

I think having a higher than usual protein intake means you can increase calories but not have to really monitor them.

What I mean is, if you increased carbs by the same ammount, you're likely to possibly start adding more fat due to their nature. Where as with protein, you'll be making sure your muscles are well fed and if you're still taking in too much, 25% will be wasted converting it, unlike carbs...

I think it makes more sense to increase protein rather than add extra carbs if you are NOT planning your diet properly and accurately as it gives you sort of a 'safety' net.

I think that's a good point wardie.

I think that's true...intuitively it certainly makes sense.

I was starting out with too many carbs in my original plan. Better to add more later if I feel it's necessary than gain a load of fat unnecessarily.

For me having a structured diet plan makes life a lot easier as I have to plan all my meals in advance anyway, and prepare my food for the day the night before.

With this in mind my plan now is to start at 3000kCal - 350/190/95 (P/C/F) on training days...this should be very close to maintenance but if I'm not gaining I can easily add more foods here and there. This time last year I'd been eating circa 3500kCal for a few months - I'd put on some fat and I'm not going down that route again. Rest days contain slightly more fats (from fish and eggs) and fewer carbs and protein. Ideally I'd like to lean out a little more on my first cycle of epistane and I should rebound off the cut anyway, so I think this is the best approach for now.

If anyone can suggest any practical improvements they'd be more than welcome - below doesn't include 'non calorific' supps:

On waking
40g WPC80

7:30
Boiled egg
30g oats, made as porridge with 100ml skimmed milk and 1 tsp honey
100g mixed berries with 200g natural yoghurt
2g fish oil

10:30
140g chicken with 80g broccoli and 1 tomato.
20g mixed nuts
2g fish oil

1:30
Steak mince with ½ onion and 200g chopped tomato, spinach, chilli & garlic
2g fish oil

4:30
Any lean meat - e.g. venison or chicken
40g Brown rice
Peppers
2g fish oil

PWO
40g WMS
25g MPC
20g WPC80

20:00
Any red meat (~200g)
Lots of cruciferous vegetables
2g fish oil

Before bed:
30g MPC
30ml double cream
50g mixed berries

That's a very solid diet there. I couldn't eat that many times aday with the cooking and preparing so kudos to you!

I suppose that's another reason why i favour the high fat route.

Karlos wrote:That's a very solid diet there. I couldn't eat that many times aday with the cooking and preparing so kudos to you!

I suppose that's another reason why i favour the high fat route.

I think I could get away with eating less often but my digestion's better when I eat more frequently.

Food prep's not so bad really, it's more habitual than a chore these days. Breakfast is the worst thing...first thing in the morning I just want it served on a plate courtesy of the breakfast fairy, but alas she's left me high and dry

Ollie, you'll only see lean mass gains on Epistane anyway and on this 2nd cycle I've definately dropped some BF.

ollie wrote:

Karlos wrote:That's a very solid diet there. I couldn't eat that many times aday with the cooking and preparing so kudos to you!

I suppose that's another reason why i favour the high fat route.

I think I could get away with eating less often but my digestion's better when I eat more frequently.

Food prep's not so bad really, it's more habitual than a chore these days. Breakfast is the worst thing...first thing in the morning I just want it served on a plate courtesy of the breakfast fairy, but alas she's left me high and dry

The breakfast fairy is a ****. Never comes to my house

Alex wrote:Ollie, you'll only see lean mass gains on Epistane anyway and on this 2nd cycle I've definately dropped some BF.

Are you suggesting I should eat above maintenance then?

Hell no.

You'll gain weight but lean out a little as well - the 2 best combinations.

Alex wrote:Hell no.

You'll gain weight but lean out a little as well - the 2 best combinations.

That's what I thought, cheers Alex