I'll be finishing my cut soon and am planning my bulk routine. Strength & Mass gains are on the agenda, though primarily mass.

I used to pyramid in my first year of 'not very serious' training. I used to do full pyramids mainly because I didn't have a clue what I was doing.

Logic tells me a descending pyramid will allow me to shift a greater load to begin with working towards strength and them come back down into the mass rep ranges towards the end of the pyramid. A quick bit of research shows that acsending pyramids tend to be favoured amongst many due to a 'pre-fatigue' effect.

I'm abit confused as to which would be the most intest/best for what I'm trying to achieve.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts/experiences guys

Cheers

BennyC

The pyramid I am doing this cycle is a strength based one but for the first two weeks of the cycle I am doing a rep range of 6,5,4 then back up so there is a bit of volume involved. I have found this to work well in previous cycles as my strength increased well. However this is the only time I have tried it on all major lifts so it will be interesting to see what the result is at the end. Although from previous experience I do find it works well for both size and strength.

I used to do descending pyramids but have for ages and ages stuck with more standard straight sets. To target a broader range of muscle fibers I either change routines every six weeks or so or go heavy/light within the same routine.

This isn't based on anything concrete, just how I prefer to train and know I do ok on. Similar to you Benny, I did pyramids when a relatvie newb... I did fine on them, but for some reason just have't gone back to them, so in all honesty couldn't say if they worked due to newb ability to grow off anything or because they are a genuinely good rep scheme.

IMO though am not sure the rep scheme matters that much so long as progression between sessions is easily possible... although there are a few studies that suggest no value in doing working sets beyond just two whatever the rep scheme - suggesting that further sets tax you more and improve endurance and workload capacity but don't actually lead to increases in the growth stimulus or improved rate of strength gain.

If those studies are reflected in real life training then they would make a good case for doing most in the earliest sets.

I used pyramis when I first started training on weights (we're talking 30 years ago lol) and I did make good strength and size gains. they're great for adaptation in newbies I suspect as they mix up your muscles doing a bit of rep work and some high intensity/low rep work - So a real shocker to your system when you first start and hence tha large gains - Wouldl you make same gains doing something else - Don't know if they'd be the same but as a newbie you always make big gains initially whatever you do as long as you do it properly and consistently. What's nice about teh pyramids as a newbie is it gets you to do both high and low rep sets and gives you a chance to see which you prefer and like and it's better to train in a rep range you like a lot of the time as you're more likely to enjoy the session and hence more likely to train 'properly' - and there's alot to be said for that imo.

I'm doing reverse pyramids on benches at the moment for strength but the jury's out on whether it's working well or not

Interestingly the Sheiko PL routines are effectuvely pyramids, but they're periodised pyramids, so e.g. week one you start at 10 reps on 50% and build up to some sets of 5 reps at say 70% then go back down the pyramid, week 2 you build up to sets of 4 at say 80% and so on till you're doing 2 reps at 90% or 95%. High volume and high intensity combined in a preiodised routine. Possibly a better aproach than doing the same pyramid every week.

Thanks for the replies guys.

That sounds a little similar to AGVT where you increase the load slightly each week and drop the reps.

Is there anything you'd recommend for somebody who is a bit bored of straight sets, has done some german volume training and also used a 5x5 approach.

I haven't a problem with volume but do feel I need to be pushing myself with some heavier loads. SO might try the approach of increasing the load, say every 3rd rotation. If I did a bodypart split, chest, back, legs, shoulders, rest. This is the approach I took during my second year training and quite liked it. It'd be nice to be able to hit arms a fresh but depending how well pyramiding works I may not need to.

I had intended on using partials, so stopping the rep where the tricep takes over to maximise the primary muscle recruitment. In which case a seperate arm day would probaly be needed.

My total 6 week routine involving the pyramid sets is as follows:

Week 1 and 2= 6,5,4,5,6
Week 3 and 4= 5,4,3,4,5
Week 5= 4,3,2,3,4
Week 6= Deload

Maybe this might suit you to hit more strength work in the last 3 weeks and strength volume in the first 2.

Coop_de_Ville wrote:My total 6 week routine involving the pyramid sets is as follows:

Week 1 and 2= 6,5,4,5,6
Week 3 and 4= 5,4,3,4,5
Week 5= 4,3,2,3,4
Week 6= Deload

Maybe this might suit you to hit more strength work in the last 3 weeks and strength volume in the first 2.

That looks good thanks for that. I might start with something higher and work my way like 10, 8, 6, 4 if i jst want to ascend and 10, 8, 6, 8, 10 for a full.

Both me and the GF ramp up the weight. My favorite system is to pick a number of reps for the day (3-6 if I go higer reps do straight sets) and ramp up from about 60% to about 85-90%. This primes the nervous system for the last few sets that are in the right % range for both growth an strength. Its very effective. Obv if I' doing sets of 3 I may do 8 sets and say sets of 6 may only be 5 sets but on average about a 6 set total per exersize.

for example say I'm benching and I'm doing 5 reps it would go something like:

70 * 5
80 * 5
90 * 5
100 * 5
110 * 5
120 * 5

then maybe drop to 80% of the last set and just rep out.

Thanks for that craig.

It's been a while since I've progressively increase the load significantly. I've learnt a bit recently on my Level 3 and am trying to put it to good use!

I quite liked training Chest & Back together with Legs & Shoulders getting their seperate own days. This should allow for a little bit more frequency each group being hit every 4-5 days as opposed to 7.

I think I'm going to write up a routine based around 4 compounds and 1-2 isolations all in a pyramid fashion.
I'll post it up for some C&C later today.

The following is what I've come up with. I've used chest as an example. But will apply the sample 4 set pricple and increased loads to each bodypart. Ignore the typo on 4th set of Flat Bench '5' should be '4'.



If I went with something like this I was thinking about using a different starting compound each time. Or perhaps pre-exhausting sometime by starting with flyes, or tricep work say every 3rd cycle.

I also found 'looping pyramids':



Pritty self explanitory, though I think due to fatigue loads would be lesser the second time round/ same loads & less reps probaly being more beneficial. Using a 2 compound 1 isolation loop means I could work Bi's & Tri's on their own day.

First example is 16 sets / 112 reps for chest & 8 sets/56 reps for triceps.
Second example is 24 sets / 168 reps for chest alone.

This looks a little high to me in regards to reps. Thinking it might be best to scrap the first set of 2 reps & just start on set 2 @ 8 reps?

The load used in each exercise would be a 'x' RM so will be pushing myself quite hard. I've used plus 5KG as an example. DB's tend to jump in 5KG's so am limited in that I might have to start lighter as I can't increase the load in anything less than 5KG. For bars though this isn't a problem. Not sure what the cable stacks go up by.

For legs/back increments could be higher as they're quite powerful muscles, probaly nearer to 10-15KG each jump.

Anyway, let me know what you think. Only a first draft so open to alot of change.