Sorry to bump such an old thread but I'm thinking doing a course of epistane...

Ideally, I'd like to try and get pretty lean (around 8%) by June, so do you think this would be a good choice? If so, when would you reccomend it be cycled?

If not, is there any thing else you would reccomend as a substitute?

Don't think you'll get much from it, perhaps a couple of lbs of mass. For the cost you'd pay similar for Winstrol and a bit more for Anavar, the latter being the best choice for lean mass gains and dropping off BF. But choice is down to cost.

Other route would be D-bol and maybe look to shed Bf after but depends if you're looking to drop BF while on a cycle or drop BF after. Also bare in mind that better quality gains will come if you're leaner to start of with as your body will be better primed to grow lean mass.

Epistane will give you very dry results, so whatever you gain should be quality muscle, but not huge slabs of it.

winstrol or anavar- to me if you are going to be playing with your hormonal axis you may as well do it with the tried and tested....

Always interested to see if people rated anavar on it's own - I know Ollie was tempted, but I can't remember if he went through with it.

kp1512 wrote:winstrol or anavar- to me if you are going to be playing with your hormonal axis you may as well do it with the tried and tested....

or as Craig would say,


TEST

Epistane destroyed my joints, tendonitus lasted for a couple of months after the cycle. Wouldn't do it again.

RoB wrote:Epistane destroyed my joints, tendonitus lasted for a couple of months after the cycle. Wouldn't do it again.

Don't take Winny then as that';s meant to be very bad as well

Will wrote:Always interested to see if people rated anavar on it's own - I know Ollie was tempted, but I can't remember if he went through with it.

Var can be awesome mate. But it really works at a higher dosage like over 60mg. Anything less and its not all that.

So I read. But it's muchos expensivos!

Lots of people did epi here including myself, its not a total bust but then again none of us are really recomending it, given uprights experience theres also a chance of gyno off it. Its maybe not the half way house your after.

More economical if you can get the raw powder.

Also bare in mind that it'll be superior to something like epistane so more expense translates into potentially better results.

I'm also reading more and more about sides cropping up from PH use. Considering these are relatively new and largely untested over the long term you've got to wonder what effect these may have. At least with the likes of Winstrol, Anavar, D-bol, Primo et al they're tried and tested so you have some idea of what you're in for.

ye var is a little more expensive but you don't need many ancillary meds, just PCT really and the powder is cheaper.

Don't forget Turanabol, a bit better than Anavar for mass (mg for mg) and is usually a bit less expensive than Anavar (though a bit harder to get). A bit less strength gains but also less prone to libido problems.

I know very little about these things, so before I jump in and decide whether or not to dabble, I'm trying to find out as much as I can. I've read a little about Anavar and it does sound interesting and probably a better choice than epi for me and what I'm after. Would be be effective to run on its own and at what kind of dose?

Will wrote:Always interested to see if people rated anavar on it's own - I know Ollie was tempted, but I can't remember if he went through with it.

Still got 5g here and planning on using it later in the year when I've leaned up a bit, although only if my gains slow down/stop. I'll run it at 80mg/day on its own - never going to try an injectable so never really considered running it along with anything else, although it does go well with test.

I tried epistane and it totally ruined my joints (very dry) and I'm 99% sure was behind my elbow problems. It seems to cause tendon trouble in a lot of people. Personally I'd avoid it at all costs.

Libido is a draw back to Var from what I've heard.

Heard good things about T-bol but availability seems to be a bit up and down. Have tried it Tart?

ollie wrote:

Will wrote:Always interested to see if people rated anavar on it's own - I know Ollie was tempted, but I can't remember if he went through with it.

Still got 5g here and planning on using it later in the year when I've leaned up a bit, although only if my gains slow down/stop. I'll run it at 80mg/day on its own - never going to try an injectable so never really considered running it along with anything else, although it does go well with test.

I tried epistane and it totally ruined my joints (very dry) and I'm 99% sure was behind my elbow problems. It seems to cause tendon trouble in a lot of people. Personally I'd avoid it at all costs.

Could run oral test with it.

Alex wrote:Libido is a draw back to Var from what I've heard.

Heard good things about T-bol but availability seems to be a bit up and down. Have tried it Tart?

isnt it just a dboll replacement - just a ittle less stronger? thats how Ive always understood it.

Ollie with 80mg would you run that daily for 6 weeks or up to 8 weeks as you've got enough for 8.

A guy at my gym who moved from the States (I think he brought it with him?) took it for 6-8 weeks if I remember correctly, he was around 10%BF to start with, and definitely hardened up by sight, but also gained a modest amount of lean muscle, or certainly what the scales was telling him can't remember exactly how much but it was a good 5lbs at least IIRC. He had an 8 point calliper test afterwards and apparently had dropped to just above 9%. So whilst not dramatic changes in physique, he leaned up a bit, but on a bit of LBM, and definitely LOOKED more solid. Then again he had done the dark side about 5 or so years previous, but had been "clean" for the 5 years.

I think the biggest gains on var are to be had in terms of strength. It's not the most anabolic or androgenic steroid out there. Not sure how I'd play it and may even up that to 100mg ED as that would see me through 7 weeks.

Still not 100% sure I'll go down that road though anyway. As Alex said libido suppression is likely to be a problem and I don't really fancy that, plus I'm gaining well naturally at the moment anyway. Just depends how things go and how I feel.

Alex wrote:Libido is a draw back to Var from what I've heard.

Heard good things about T-bol but availability seems to be a bit up and down. Have tried it Tart?

Yes, did some experiments with. I used it as supplement, took 10mg first thing AM for about 2 months (more like 10 weeks), 5 days a week (gym days, Monday to Friday). Before that I tried the same but for shorter time, 4 full weeks IIRC, and added MDHT before training sessions (low dose, 12.5-25mg only). I recall that on the end of the 3rd week and into the 4th week of the second try recovery was quicker and strength was also better. First try I ended up gaining about 1Kg, the second try about the same.

Didn't felt any shutdown (I know, it is subjective). The first time it was an experiment. The second time I used it to help me going through lots of sleepless nights, stress and bad meals without loosing muscle (go ahead, have kids and wou'll see what I'm talking about ).

Today, I would like to do Anavar at 20mg/ED (that's enough for good collagen synthesis) and +50mg of Turinabol. That would give a bit less strength but better mass and less libido problems.

Tartulho wrote:
Today, I would like to do Anavar at 20mg/ED (that's enough for good collagen synthesis) and +50mg of Turinabol. That would give a bit less strength but better mass and less libido problems.

This sounds like a pretty decent mix.

from what iv read prohormones and anavar cycles arnt really worth the money might aswell train natural if your shutting down the hpta for a couple of lbs on muscle, i would either do a test with anavar aswell maybe, or dbol which you could do without jabs of test as its the same more or less

kp1512 wrote:

Alex wrote:Libido is a draw back to Var from what I've heard.

Heard good things about T-bol but availability seems to be a bit up and down. Have tried it Tart?

isnt it just a dboll replacement - just a ittle less stronger? thats how Ive always understood it.

Yes, that's how it is laid usually. If you put Anavar on one side (the strength one) and Dbol on the other (the mass one), OT is on the middle. It is close to Dbol in terms of compound, they are very similar. The difference between them is what makes OT resistant to aromatase.