Yesterday in a state of boredom I decided to total up the cost of my supplements for the year. What I am currently supplementing:

Fish Oils (BSD Tripple Strength) x 4
Whey x 40grams
Oats + Cinnamon x 100 grams
Whey blend 6-8hr x 40 grams + semi skimmed
EAA's (starting soon) 10grams - not tried these yet so will see how I get on!
Pump Supplement

OT but are we allowed to say the brand of supplements we use if they aren't from BSD? I read the rules but wasn't sure if mentioning/discussing a supplement that isn't from BSD is allowed?

Anyway, I thought I'd see if I could save some money by mixing up my own whey to use pre and post workout. Currently my whey contains per 25 gram serving 500mg Taurine, 200mg L-Glutamine, 200mg BCAA's.

I'm not sure but I don't think this is a beneficial amount at a bodyweight of 88KG and height 5'10" with a bodyfat of between 16-18%?

I did some math and worked out if I mixed my own using ingredients from BSD I could have 2grams of Taurine, 2 grams L-Glutamine and 2 grams BCAA's per scoop, but this would cost £45 more over the year. It's less than £4 a month extra and if the amounts would be beneficial then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I've seen that most of these ingredients when being taken on their own are recommended at around 10-15grams + per day. I'd be getting around 4 grams of each. Does this look like a good solution? If somebody could suggest some improvements or alterations like ditching one of the addatives, or just using more of one then that would be great.
I could keep it simple and have 5grams of BCAA a day and cost wise it would work out the same. I can't really afford more than £15 per kilo as the idea was to try and save money not spend more!

Any help is greatly appreciated,

Benny

ESN is an open forum so any brands of supplements can be mentioned and discussed. This would remain the same regardless of any future affiliations put in place whether that would be BSD or others.

At the doses you mention I wouldn't concern yourself too much with supplementing Taurine or Glutamine particually. Out of the 2 I'd use Glutamine but it ideally needs to be taken on an empty stomach if you're after restoring Muscle Glutamine stores while on a more full stomach it tends to be broken down more easily due to it's weak bonding and potentially up to 50% can find it's way into the gut. This itself isn't a bad thing as Glutamine is good for gut health but it all depends on whether you're wanting to supplement purely for the Muscle Recovery aspect.

Regarding adding in BCAA's/EAA's as well I'd keep this seperate as you'd want to use these more between meals or around workout time but you're looking at 10g doses. What you can do however is to add 2g Leucine to a shake which can help to increase Protein Synthesis and is cheap as chips.

Thanks for the reply.

Ditching Taurine and L-glutamine from the blend saves me a bit of cash as I don't want to be not taking enough as it's money and effort down the drain!

I've ordered EAA's and a capping kit (as they taste like poo, so I hear). I'm not so concerned with making these last and more interested it maximising their potential. I was planning on taking 5grams about an hour before I train and then 5 grams immediatley after.

My supplements routine is my pre workout shake about 45-50 minutes before I train, whey, oats & water. Then 15-20 minutes before training I take 1 scoop of Superpump 250 and head to the gym. Post workout is whey, oats & water again. Will taking the EAA's with my shakes suffice? I've heard about 'pulsing' and taking them on an empty stomach upon waking/between meals regulary in smaller doses? What are your thoughts?

Thanks for the help.

Take 1g EAAs/10kg bodyweight before your workouts. Capping it would be a PITA, although I agree they do taste quite horrid. Just grin and bear it

I personally think BCAAs in a 4:1:1 ratio work well with the pulsing method you described. EAAs have been shown to stimulate maximum PS when taken pre-WO though. There are some studies floating about on here.

ollie wrote:Take 1g EAAs/10kg bodyweight before your workouts. Capping it would be a PITA, although I agree they do taste quite horrid. Just grin and bear it

I personally think BCAAs in a 4:1:1 ratio work well with the pulsing method you described. EAAs have been shown to stimulate maximum PS when taken pre-WO though. There are some studies floating about on here.

For some reason a part of me wanted the caping kit

So I should take 9 grams before a workout. Any need to take them post workout or upon waking?

I've seen people mention BCAA's ratio's before. Is it achieved by buying the three amino's seperatley and then adjusting the serving to suit the required ratio?

I'd look to take them either during or post as well - or just stick to whey during/post.

To make the 4:1:1 ratio just add in an extra 50% Leucine to the quantity of BCAA powder you already have. So with 1kg BCAA, add in 500g Leucine on top.

Personally I wouldn't even bother with BCAA/EAA. I try to be as minimalistic with my supplementation as possible these days...

Rilla wrote:Personally I wouldn't even bother with BCAA/EAA. I try to be as minimalistic with my supplementation as possible these days...

Ultimately I agree... but I think both have their value where diet is spot on.

Rilla wrote:Personally I wouldn't even bother with BCAA/EAA. I try to be as minimalistic with my supplementation as possible these days...

No stims Mr Rilla?

Resurrected wrote:

Rilla wrote:Personally I wouldn't even bother with BCAA/EAA. I try to be as minimalistic with my supplementation as possible these days...

No stims Mr Rilla?

I didn't say I don't use stims, though it's nowhere near what I used to do.
Stims is one of the things that I find useful.

So either:

Take some EAA's pre training with fast carbs

or if this is too expensive

take some whey 30 min pre training (presuming your digestion can take it) and fast carbs right before training

or just eat a good solid meal 2 hours pre.

most other things around training time are a waste of time IMO. A half hearted amino blend pre is not worth it.

I'm awaiting arrival of 1KG's EAA's and 1KG's Leucine.

On closer inspection it seems EAA's contain Leucine. I was intending on taking around 8 grams of EAA's and 2 Grams of Leucine.

BSD:
it is worth noting that when administered alone in too high of a dose, it can lower the concentration of other amino acids, particular other BCAAs.

How much Leucine is too much as I don't want to be over doing it? Also would it be recommended to take the EAA's & Leucine 1 hour before working out with my pre-wo shake, or half an hour before with my SP250? orrrr immediatley before training?

15min pre with fast carbs

15g of EAA's, save the leucine for when you diet.

Benny

You only need 2g of Leucine to increase PS to a credible level.

If you get the chance taking Leucine 2g x 3-4 times a day will make a sizable impact on PS within your body....

kp

^^ this, with food.

You can do as itll raise Insulin to a slight degree and if you are eating something itll just get masked in it.

Thanks for the replys

kp1512 wrote:Benny

You only need 2g of Leucine to increase PS to a credible level.

If you get the chance taking Leucine 2g x 3-4 times a day will make a sizable impact on PS within your body....

kp

10g of EAAs should exceed 2g leucine content already - in most EAA blends the BCAA content is between 30 and 50% total, with leucine often 30-40% of the whole mix! If I had the choice and wasn't limited by finances at the moment I'd always take EAAs over whey - 15g pre 7 during the workout has been the best supplementation I've used in terms of muscle gain (obviously takes a month or two before you realise you are gaining slightly more). It works well at a lesser dose topped up with extra BCAAs too although not quite as well.

Taurine and glutamine I really rate too, but for different reasons, and although good wouldn't consider either of them as essential.

Finances are a bit of a limitation at current. My diet is probaly around enough over maintenance to allow me to build muscle as I'm trying to trim as such. A cardio session 2-3 times a week burning 4-500 calories should see me 'trim' hopefully. I don't expect to 'gain' much if any muscle but hopefully not loose too much/minimal amount.

I've got the leucine and will be capping tomorrow. I currently eat at:

Breakfast 8-9am
Snack 10:30/11
Lunch 12/12:30
Pre W/O @ 3
Train @ 4 ish
Post W/O @ 5:15 ish
Dinner 7/7:30
Pre Bed Slow Release Shake @10/10:30

I'f the Leucine will make any difference what times would you suggest I take it? Or how long before/after would you recommend. Or shall I just save it until I'm bulking again?

Benny

Leu - its when you want the most PS [protein synth]

So morning, after workout and in the evening.

2 grams upon waking with my fish oils. Immediatley post W/O and then again before bed with my slow digesting shake it is. Taking 8-9 grams of EAA's 10-15 minutes before work out too.

Benny wrote:2 grams upon waking with my fish oils. Immediatley post W/O and then again before bed with my slow digesting shake it is. Taking 8-9 grams of EAA's 10-15 minutes before work out too.

EAA Pre wont be an issue so you are good there.

On a cut leucine and BCAAs are more vital than on a bulk. When in calorie defecit you oxidise a lot more muscle tissue for energy than under normal conditions, and the prime amino you rip out of your muscles in this cirumstance is leucine, so supplmentation is a really good idea.

On top of that, leucine activates so many growth pathways (some insulin dependent, some non insulin dependent) that its a powerful signaler for growth - so important if calorie restricted and more catabolic anyway. I'd take a good 10g a day of it (or as much as you can afford) divided into four or five doses equally spaced out. Best taken with other food.

If really restricted by expense then just first thing and around the workout with doses never smaller than 2g.

Thanks for that. I'll bear this in mind when I start my full on cut.

Too much Leucine can hinder the other amino's from what I've read (on BSD's product description). How much is too much? If I were to incorporate Leucine content within the EAA's too.

I wouldn't trust BSD.