Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

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Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby kp1512 on Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:57 am

Interesting

Kre-alkalyn? supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. DrTallon@CR-Technologies.net

All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn? (KA) a ?Buffered? creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (Creapure?). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Mono

Postby Bison on Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:35 am

You can't beat Creapure, why people keep trying to fix what isn't broken I don't know...
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Mono

Postby Dtlv74 on Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:03 pm

Bison wrote:You can't beat Creapure, why people keep trying to fix what isn't broken I don't know...


Agreed. It's all about creatine 'responders' vs 'non-responders' though, but i think it's all silly. Various factors will determine just how much good old creatine works for you, including how much red meat is in your diet (the more red meat you eat the higher your creatine intake will be from food and so supplementing on top will have less of an effect), how muscular you already are (the bigger your muscle the more creatine your body can use... skinny folk with less muscle will see less change), and how well hydrated you are (creatine needs for you to be well hydrated to take best advantage)... hammer this information into people and forget about delivery systems that don't really work I say!

The only thing I'd add though about these other products is that it is a misconception that creatinine is in any way toxic or harmful - it isn't. It's useless, and so undesireable for creatine to convert to it, but it's not going to do you any harm.

This myth comes from the fact that impaired kidney function causes greater creatinine levels in piss tests... but this is a result of poor kidney function and not a causative factor. A few people got the wrong idea about it though and then started making inaccurate statements about CEE and stuff like that degrading into something toxic. Just not true.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Gym-pig on Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:42 am

Sorry for posting on old threads - just back from Hols

I rate Kre Alkalyn and the pro Kre Alkalyn made me blow up like a balloon during my workout - serious pumps .

I dont get the same effect from creapure . No idea why and it doesnt appear to be backed up by science
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Dtlv74 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:57 pm

The thing that makes me skeptical about studies from Tallon and Childs on creatine types (they did a famous one on CEE too) is that they work for a supplement company themselves (CR Technologies) that exclusively markets creatine mono products. Is research done more to bash their rivals than anything else and that always makes me skeptical.

There are a few questions unanswered too. They say these two things:

Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.


This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM.

Immediate question - at what time interval did it show this 35% drop? If it was after the 5 min interval then the result is totally irrelevant as either creatine or Kre Alkalyn would have long since left the stomach by then... the 30 min and 120 min results don't represent anything because the stuff doesn't just sit in your stomach for hours on end it actually reaches your system pretty quickly - if taken on an empty stomach most things will have reached the bloodstream within 10-20 mins.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Craig on Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:25 pm

Gym-pig wrote:Sorry for posting on old threads - just back from Hols

I rate Kre Alkalyn and the pro Kre Alkalyn made me blow up like a balloon during my workout - serious pumps .

I dont get the same effect from creapure . No idea why and it doesnt appear to be backed up by science



its the only creatine that does anything for me too, feck the science.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby kp1512 on Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:22 pm

almost tempted to try it myself now! just for shits and giggles
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Craig on Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:13 am

kp1512 wrote:almost tempted to try it myself now! just for shits and giggles



no real point if mono lredy works for you.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby kp1512 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:38 am

Craig wrote:
kp1512 wrote:almost tempted to try it myself now! just for shits and giggles



no real point if mono lredy works for you.


true...
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Alex on Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:01 am

Don't really respond to creatine so this could be worth a go at some point.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Gym-pig on Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:55 am

Craig wrote:
Gym-pig wrote:Sorry for posting on old threads - just back from Hols

I rate Kre Alkalyn and the pro Kre Alkalyn made me blow up like a balloon during my workout - serious pumps .

I dont get the same effect from creapure . No idea why and it doesnt appear to be backed up by science



its the only creatine that does anything for me too, feck the science.



Agreed . I should add that I have only ever used EFX products . There are some far cheaper KA products out there but not sure how good they are
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby kp1512 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:54 am

GP - thay are the same mate

The patented process is universal from a single source as far as I can recall..so it will be all the same. SImilar to buying Creapure
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Gym-pig on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:13 am

kp1512 wrote:GP - thay are the same mate

The patented process is universal from a single source as far as I can recall..so it will be all the same. SImilar to buying Creapure


Are you sure Discs supps sell some for under a tenner whereas EFX is around £20 ?
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby kp1512 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:15 am

Gym-pig wrote:
kp1512 wrote:GP - thay are the same mate

The patented process is universal from a single source as far as I can recall..so it will be all the same. SImilar to buying Creapure


Are you sure Discs supps sell some for under a tenner whereas EFX is around £20 ?


I have a bulk price list on my desk for retail:-) its got decent mark up. :D

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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Alex on Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:03 pm

kp1512 wrote:Uhhming and aahing to bring it in for BSD.


There are plenty of Mono non-responders that I'm sure would happily test it out.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Craig on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:52 pm

Its a solid product IMO, I would of offered this stuff before CEE but then again I'm bias, as this oe works for me :mrgreen:
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Alex on Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:14 pm

Whats the most effective doing? I Assume there's no prolonged loading period as such?
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Gym-pig on Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:38 pm

Alex wrote:Whats the most effective doing? I Assume there's no prolonged loading period as such?



Never loaded with it . For me I feel stonger and theres a definate increase in weight of about 5 - 6 lbs which I dont get with mono .
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Dtlv74 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:41 pm

Just off the basis of all these anecdotal recommendations am tempted to try it too. I respond moderately to mono and CEE but nothing spectacular (about 1kg increase). Have always put this relatively small response down to eating enough red meat anyway and also not being that muscular to start with.

Might just have to compare and see what happens with this stuff.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Gym-pig on Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:03 pm

Discount supps do " Thursday plantation " K A for £8.99 for 120 x 750 mg tablets

Seems too cheap to be true

KP - does this look ok with the prices you have ?
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Craig on Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:47 pm

The dosing goes by body weight Alex, I used the extreme nutrition KA, I think I used 4 caps on training days and 3 on non training days. I haven't used it for a while so could be totally wrong :lol: . I'll give it another go now its so much cheaper. I think I'ved used it 3 times in total.
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby SCOTT GALTON on Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:45 pm

How are you going with this Gym Pig?
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Gym-pig on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:06 pm

SCOTT GALTON wrote:How are you going with this Gym Pig?


I can def do more reps with the same weight and feel fresher for the next set
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby simon m on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:32 pm

Gym-pig wrote:
SCOTT GALTON wrote:How are you going with this Gym Pig?


I can def do more reps with the same weight and feel fresher for the next set

Talk about resurrect a dead thread!
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Re: Kre Alkalyn v Creatine Monohydrate

Postby Gym-pig on Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:43 pm

simon m wrote:
Gym-pig wrote:
SCOTT GALTON wrote:How are you going with this Gym Pig?


I can def do more reps with the same weight and feel fresher for the next set

Talk about resurrect a dead thread!



I didnt clock the question and some of us have become mature and mannered with age ;)
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