The Road to Russia

by **Coop_de_Ville** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:24 pm

Interesting comments and I agree that pure strength work despite attempting to be fast and explosive is still slow and after a certain point it is diminishing returns. Therefore once a high level of strength has been achieved a power based programme will benefit me the most as it is the action of moving something quickly that is the key thing and training the body like Ader said to reduce that lag and improve leg speed etc. For trials i have to both push the sled and do the sprint. However the key thing that the selectors will be looking for is how fast you push in combination with somebody else. Therefore as you are sharing the load of 120kg it is actually a 60kg lift, so i feel that being able to lift 60kg faster is the main thing i should be looking at and I dont feel adding 10kg to my deadlift will give me any noticeable performance gain rather explosive weights and plyos will give me what im looking for.

Would people agree?

I thinks Scott's point about prowler work, BW and plyos is very true and I will be brining a lot more of this into my training. Unfortunately i dont have use of a prowler but I am going to see what i can do to try and get one!

by **Ader** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:36 pm

I agree with CDV and Scott - Get the prowler out and more emphasis on speed.

So maybe think of doing lighter power cleans, DL's whatever but doing really fast

If you have to move 60KG maybe combine some over weight work - say 70KG for the strength aspect and some underwight 40/50Kg for the pure speed - On prowler, power cleans and DL's and whatever

Plus the drills and puer sprints - you and no weight to really get the leg speed up.

Two very important questions: What do you think? What do you know works for you?

by **health4ni** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:38 pm

Try upping the reps on the cleans. No more than 6 though. So, 4-6 is good. Probably end up being the same exercise time as the sleigh sprint ??

by **Coop_de_Ville** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:45 pm

Yes Ader that sounds like a good plan with working around the 60kg. Also a good plan from Scott 4-5 sounds like the right rep range to simulate the same exercise time as the sled push.

Thanks for your input guys! Very much appreciated!

by **Rilla** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:25 pm

health4ni wrote:If I saw an athlete just once a week for strength training and only for 3 months say then I wouldn't bother trying to get an Oly lift nailed if he/she couldn't do them (or was very poor). It is all individual.

You need to be strong to be fast.

This is a very good point imo. Olympic lifting is a sport in itself and as such requires quite a bit of coaching to get most benefit from. Plyometric jumping and/or speed deadlifting is much easier to learn.

by **Ader** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:32 pm

Rilla wrote:
health4ni wrote:If I saw an athlete just once a week for strength training and only for 3 months say then I wouldn't bother trying to get an Oly lift nailed if he/she couldn't do them (or was very poor). It is all individual.

You need to be strong to be fast.

This is a very good point imo. Olympic lifting is a sport in itself and as such requires quite a bit of coaching to get most benefit from. Plyometric jumping and/or speed deadlifting is much easier to learn.

Which is why coaches don't go for it that much - and probably shouldn't unless they're well versed in proper technique - In CDV's defence of using it though he's pretty much got the technique nailed (depsite my long nit picky critique) so is getting good benefit.

by **Rilla** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:34 pm

Some thoughts:
- As Scott pointed out, try to keep your working sets to around the same time it takes to push the slegh.Prowler, prowler, prowler. If you're serious about this, get one. 'Nuff said. Maybe talk to the bobsleigh team trainers or whomever is in charge.

- Sled dragging should be good for you and can be done pretty easily at home actually

- Quoting Scott again: you need to be strong to be fast!

- Though you have a definate short-term goal, remember that you're still very young and have probably somewhere between 6-10 years till you reach your prime. Slow and steady wins the race. Build strength and power from session to session, year to year - you're already doing very well, you have the potential to be a beast in 5 years.

- For off-season training, you could try high-rep squatting. More muscle makes strength gains easier, and being heavier gives you more leverage as well (as long as you're not slower).

- Though the posterior chain is the "engine" for sprinting, the quads come much more into play once you're leaning forwards.

All I can think of now.

by **cleaver** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:36 pm

tudor bompa wrote:For sprinting and any sports that desire quickness, maximum speed and agility, the triple extensor muscles – gastrocnemius and soleus, quadriceps, and gluteus maximus – are determinant for ultimate performance. When sprinting, the propulsion phase (the push-off against the ground) is crucial. Weak propulsion potential will increase the duration of the contact phase, making the athlete slower. The stronger the triple extensor muscles, the shorter the duration of the contact phase. A short duration contact phase means improved speed.

Now, the dead-lift does not strengthen the calf muscles! Period! It strengthens the hamstrings – which are essential in terms of power and strength in terms of shortening the recovery phase of the running step (bringing the heels up toward the buttocks).

I recommend the following exercises for sprinters (and any athletes) who want to become faster and more agile (in this order):

a) calf (heel) raise

b) squats

c) a suitable hamstring exercise.

by **Coop_de_Ville** on Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:53 pm

Yes I agree Rilla that long term development of strength is key! However for the next six weeks I feel i will get more of a return from the power based stuff. A prowler really does look very useful and will try to get my hands on one of them.

Cleavy thats something I shall look at come the next cycle as I have rarely done any calf specific work.

by **Rilla** on Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:04 pm

Heh, just remember us when you get to the top CDV.

Can imagine your thanking speech at the Olympics:
Thanks to all my internet coaches. :lol:

by **Flash Sketcha** on Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:03 pm

interesting abotu calf work.... i thought training calfs could perhaps be detrimental to my sprinting, never really see any top sprinters with big calfs, just massive thighs. In sprinting I thought the calfs role were to transfer force through stiffness not really generate much force itself.

by **Rilla** on Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:08 pm

ash fletcher wrote:interesting abotu calf work.... i thought training calfs could perhaps be detrimental to my sprinting, never really see any top sprinters with big calfs, just massive thighs. In sprinting I thought the calfs role were to transfer force through stiffness not really generate much force itself.

Well there's a big differnce between a sprinter and a sleigh-pusher-guy whatever they're called. That difference is that as a sprinter, you're only leaning forward during the start, once you're upright, the posterior chain takes over the majority of the work.

by **GymBunny** on Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:30 am

If you have access to a prowler it is your duty to use it because some of us are not so fortunate. If you don't I shall come over, find a stepladder, and whack upside the head.

@ Ash, I think well developed, i.e. powerful, calves are hugely important. You're only as good as your weakest link and calves seem to be a major weak link for a lot of men. As Rilla says, sprinters are upright after the initial start. If Coop is gonna be pushing a bobsleigh, he's going to be leaning forward right up until he is in the sled. Strong calves will also be extremely important.

by **Rilla** on Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:56 am

Indeed. Listen to the Rillaman.

by **Coop_de_Ville** on Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:46 pm

I am back from trials in Bath this weekend and it was quite successful. I pushed a 3.71 which is equal to a PB with poor conditions. This time would put me 8th quickest ranked overall and would see me being selected for the world cup team which will could qualify for the olympics in 2010.
However this is only stage one of selection trials as stage 2 is in september and essentially the more important trial. If i improve as I plan to over the next 10 weeks i would hope to solidify my spot in the world cup team. So overall the last few weeks work has paid off as I pushed quicker than a lot of people I thought I wouldn't have and am in a good position now.

by **kp1512** on Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:47 pm

that is really promising mate! You must be chuffed!

by **Craig** on Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:53 pm

Coop_de_Ville wrote:I am back from trials in Bath this weekend and it was quite successful. I pushed a 3.71 which is equal to a PB with poor conditions. This time would put me 8th quickest ranked overall and would see me being selected for the world cup team which will could qualify for the olympics in 2010.
However this is only stage one of selection trials as stage 2 is in september and essentially the more important trial. If i improve as I plan to over the next 10 weeks i would hope to solidify my spot in the world cup team. So overall the last few weeks work has paid off as I pushed quicker than a lot of people I thought I wouldn't have and am in a good position now.

Whats the plan then to be able push that death trap quicker?

by **Rilla** on Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:55 pm

That's really good dude.
Listening to the Rilla-man has paid off.

by **Coop_de_Ville** on Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:01 pm

Thanks boys I am quite pleased but I know lots can change and other people who are more experienced may push faster next time round. However I think I have a lot more potential to improve than they do as I have only been doing it for 2 months now.
I aim to get my time down to 3.67 which would pretty much ensure my place in the squad especially with my weight.

by **Rilla** on Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:07 pm

=listen more to Rilla and eat more steak.

by **Richard** on Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:06 am

Well done Coop. I dont understand a lot of your training these days, but it looks like its working well for you

by **Coop_de_Ville** on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:10 pm

Start of a 4 week strength endurance/max strength maintenance phase. Working on 2 weights sessions per week with one session being single leg orientated and the other explosive/max strength work.

Single Leg session

A.1 Pistols

5 sets of 5 reps per leg BW

B.1 Bulgarian High Step Up (reps are per leg)

6xbar (20kg)
3x40kg
3x45
3x50
3x55
6x40
20xbar

C.1 Bulgarian Split Squat

8x17.5kg
6x22.5kg
4x27.5kg
8x22.5kg

D.1 Chins

3 sets of 8 BW (Full ROM)

D.2 Bench Press

8x70kg
8x70kg
8x70kg

Hurdle Jumps x3

Core Circuit

Good session today, I think this single leg work is going to give me great gains in both terms of strength in the gym and speed and strength pushing.

by **Rilla** on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:44 pm

Why are you only doing 2 sessions a week?

by **Coop_de_Ville** on Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:00 pm

My priority at the moment is to improve my speed on the track as I feel that is where I will get the most benefit in order for my times to improve. Bearing in mind the push session on saturday is as good as a weights session so by having 3 sessions a week is going to limit how much i can improve on the track due to me being in fatigue during my running sessions.

by **Karlos** on Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:31 pm

Congralts with the trials sanka, man.

Are you finally doing chins properly, the manly way?

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