So im going to give up powerlifting for a while as im getting bored of it. I fancy giving olympic lifting a go

I want to jerk 100kg god damn it!!!


Powerlifting.. I no how to do, I can draw a routine up for any one to target weakness's.

Olympic Lifting is a whole new mistress, does any one have any experience in it? and could they give me a beginners routine if they know of one.

I thought Ader might know a bit about this, or I think he does.


(here are a few i found)
http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/ol ... utine.html
http://www.musclenet.com/olympiclifting.htm
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-oly ... fting.aspx

Those routines look ok to me.

They are correct in stating that the first lift (or 2) should be the most complex lift; like Power Cleans or Snatches.

High Pulls are good to improve the strength of the movement used in Cleans & Snatches.

To be honest though, imo you need someone who knows how to do these lifts to help you. I've yet to see anyone at my gym do correct Cleans & Snatches. They all do it wrong. Sure, the weight is lifted but badly imo.

They are quite technical exercises and expert instruction should be used.

Squats etc are no problem; just that it's full ROM

Matt

I'll try & help, but would help if I knew a few things:
- How much Oly lifting have you done?
- How technically competent do you feel in teh movements?
- How often do you want to train 3/4 days per week?

Not sure I like teh Sports fitness adviser routine - Bench press, rows and toe raises not needed imo - there are better things you can do Musclenet and muscle talk routines are better

The reason I ask the questions is because the more a beginner you are the more you want to work on technique and less on strength - so overhead squats, drop squats, front squats might feature more in a beginner routine for example than in one for someone more experienced.

Like i said on your other poast Matt get in touch with Del Mcqueen and see what he says.

health4ni- I know how to do the basic movements, I dont upright row the weight unlike most lifters- I shrug it I have asked my biomechanics coach to give me a hand, and there is an olympic coach that comes in every thursday (I think its that day) so I plan on enquiring to training with him to go over the lifts as well.

-Ader

I'll try & help, but would help if I knew a few things:
- How much Oly lifting have you done?
cower clean- yes
jerk- yes
snatch- yes & no (I understand how to do the lift in theory, its just platically doing it)
squat clean- no (cant get under the bar)
split jerk- no (dont understand the concept of getting into the split yet)

- How technically competent do you feel in teh movements?
same applies for one above
- How often do you want to train 3/4 days per week?
More the merrier, means more calories


Not sure I like teh Sports fitness adviser routine - Bench press, rows and toe raises not needed imo - there are better things you can do Musclenet and muscle talk routines are better
im loving the use of 'teh' btw lol uhrm, im not really bothered about assistance work such as bench, rows, toe raises.


The reason I ask the questions is because the more a beginner you are the more you want to work on technique and less on strength - so overhead squats, drop squats, front squats might feature more in a beginner routine for example than in one for someone more experienced.
I'd still like to work on technique more then strength as in olympic lifting its pritty much all technique (or so ive heard). Need to work on drop squats.

Replies? any one? Ader? Ni?

just to throw another routine in the mix.

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/ar ... issek1.htm

Matt wrote:there is an olympic coach that comes in every thursday (I think its that day) so I plan on enquiring to training with him to go over the lifts as well

If you've got access to an olympic coach I would stongly advise you use him to help you with technique and a beginners routine! I suspect initially you need to work on technique mostly so lots of practicing the lifts and assistance exercises

eg

For cleans:
- Do a power clean - Don't stand up but immediately do a front squat - Idea is to get the feel of 1st pulling the bar up then going under - albeit initially in 2 seperate moves - gradually work towards catching the bar lower and lower as you get more comfortable - This can work but may not suit all - But you're not constrained to using really small weights which is nice

- Hang cleans (not power cleans) - Stand up with bar - do a small dip, extend up and duck under it into a low front squat - Obviously use a small weight! Gets you used to getting under the bar fast - Oly lifting is all about speed at the top of the pull (not speed off the floor!) and speed getting under the bar

- Lots of front squats

Similarly for snatches

- Do a power snatch - don't stand up but immediately squat right down before standing up - Same theory as cleans

- Drop squats - Start with bar behind neck with snatch width grip - Do a small dip and drive bar up - as if doing a power jerk behind neck - But insetad of simply heaving the bar overhead, drop under it down into a full squat - Again to train speed under the bar

- Overhead squats

Got to go now but those are initaial thoughts - Split jerk is less obviious - I think you just have to practice with no weight and/or bar before puting weights on - If you can do push jerks/power jerks you're part way there

Also watch/look at people doing the movements as much as possible to reinforce in your mind what you need to do - Proper lifters though not numpty's in teh gym who no f' all - On Youtube look for vid's of people in big competitions eg olympic or world championships.

Also see these:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wt423i1w6vs
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=71denvCLxP0
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9nc4DpIzns8

For strength work
- back squats are the mainstay
- I'd avoid high pulls initially until technique is bedded in - High pull technique tend to be a bit different from teh pull when doing an actual lift and so may confuse you/CNS -
- SHoulder strengtyh helps so shoulder presses in front/behind neck and push jerks

Remeber pretty much everything in Oly lifting is legs so no opportunity to do a split - Every other day training to gve legs a chance to recover so 3 days a week - possible 4 days if you can hack it - Your legs will either die or get huge!

Finally Just to repeat - TALK TO THE OLYMPIC COACH YOU HAVE ACCESS TO

great post Ader

To put it bluntly, your squat and deadlift technique is far from perfect. What makes you think you will be able to lift the far more technically difficult olympic lifts properly?

JohnC wrote:To put it bluntly, your squat and deadlift technique is far from perfect. What makes you think you will be able to lift the far more technically difficult olympic lifts properly?

Cruel, very cruel

Ader wrote:

JohnC wrote:To put it bluntly, your squat and deadlift technique is far from perfect. What makes you think you will be able to lift the far more technically difficult olympic lifts properly?

Cruel, very cruel

But VERY HONEST

i also agree!

JohnC wrote:To put it bluntly, your squat and deadlift technique is far from perfect. What makes you think you will be able to lift the far more technically difficult olympic lifts properly?

how about feck off


4 things-

1. feck off.. again j/k critisizm is always welcome (yeah I know I didnt spell that right just for you grammar whores hehe)
2. Back squat and Deadlift are quite different to olympic lifts (if you think it or you dont, they are)
3. Squat & deadlift arent about technique, there about lifting weight.. any way possible where olympic lifts on the other hand is all about technique, if you aint got the technique you aint gonna lift it.
4. Training the lifts 3-4x a week gives you optimun time to practise and you are very less likely to overtrain doing lets say the C&J 4x a week then deadlifting or squatting 4x a week.


Well, with squatting & deadlift arnt based around form, you can still lift large amount of weight with crap form.

Olympic lifts on the other hand arent like that, if you aint got the technique you aint going to lift anything heavy. Also, doing the lifts 3-4x a week helps.

Edit: Im still not sure on what routine to do, any help?

Matt wrote:

JohnC wrote:To put it bluntly, your squat and deadlift technique is far from perfect. What makes you think you will be able to lift the far more technically difficult olympic lifts properly?

how about feck off


4 things-

1. feck off.. again j/k critisizm is always welcome (yeah I know I didnt spell that right just for you grammar whores hehe)
2. Back squat and Deadlift are quite different to olympic lifts (if you think it or you dont, they are)
3. Squat & deadlift arent about technique, there about lifting weight.. any way possible where olympic lifts on the other hand is all about technique, if you aint got the technique you aint gonna lift it.
4. Training the lifts 3-4x a week gives you optimun time to practise and you are very less likely to overtrain doing lets say the C&J 4x a week then deadlifting or squatting 4x a week.


Well, with squatting & deadlift arnt based around form, you can still lift large amount of weight with crap form.

Olympic lifts on the other hand arent like that, if you aint got the technique you aint going to lift anything heavy. Also, doing the lifts 3-4x a week helps.

Edit: Im still not sure on what routine to do, any help?

you're missing the point, he's saying that you didn't get your squat and deadlift form right yet in response to you saying you know how to perform most of the olympic lifts already.


Also squat and deadlift form is very important! maybe you would have shifted more weight if you kept working on the form! hehe

I didnt get my squat and deadlift form right cause I never did form work per sai.. where as you HAVE to do it in olympic lifting, I know how to do the lifts I never said I know how to do them perfectlly.. I know how to do it so I dont need to start from scratch but still need to practise.

Matt wrote:I didnt get my squat and deadlift form right cause I never did form work per sai.. where as you HAVE to do it in olympic lifting, I know how to do the lifts I never said I know how to do them perfectlly.. I know how to do it so I dont need to start from scratch but still need to practise.

You're still missing the point Matt. You never bothered, by your own admission, to learn the power lifts properly. What makes you think you will all of a sudden find the dedication to learn the Oly lifts properly.

Squat and deadlift are all about form. That's why the people who lift the most have the best form. IMO the best 3 pound for pound British deadlifters are Andy B, Del, and Chris Jenkins. What do they all have in common? Well practised textbook technique.

Matt, I agree the oly lifts are absolutely awesome, but it does seem that you can't decide what you want to do! You started powerlifting to compete and brought all the equipment, but haven't made much/as much progress as you want, so recently you had a flurry of interest in martial arts, now you want to do oly lifts.

You need to make up your mind about what you want to do and learn the techniques properly, be dedicated. A jack of all trades is a master of none and if you don't master these techniques you'll end up injured.

The guys here keep trying to help and offer advice and all you seem to do is throw it back at them.

If you are actually serious about oly lifting then use the coach that comes to your gym. Not everyone has access to help like that, appreciate it, be a man, be smart and use it.

eh? what do you mean I cant make up my mind what to do.. I want to do olympic lifting if I didnt want to do it then this thread wouldnt exist.. seriously..

Can you lot stop giving my reasons to not do it and instead start being helpful, I do plan on using the coach if I am able to, all I need know is a routine which some how out of all the posts in here no one has recommended one. Except Cleaver but no one then posted about it.

Why does every one seem to be fighting the idea of me doing olympic lifting, not very supportive tbh.. well, there are the few they are helping.

Ok

To paraphrase all the advice so far.

1. Find a coach
2. Choose a routine that allows plenty of practice
3. No ego lifting. Focus on improving your technique every session
4. Practice the lifts some more.
5. All assistance work must have carry over value to some aspect of the 2 lifts.
5. No BBing to build big gunz. They are prohibitive to good oly lifting

I once read that Eastern European coaches believe it take 10,000 reps to get the technique right. That's with constant coaching. This is why having a coach is vital.

Good luck, and remember practice, practice, practice.......

Excellent post that Cleaver

cleaver wrote:Ok

To paraphrase all the advice so far.

1. Find a coach
2. Choose a routine that allows plenty of practice
3. No ego lifting. Focus on improving your technique every session
4. Practice the lifts some more.
5. All assistance work must have carry over value to some aspect of the 2 lifts.
5. No BBing to build big gunz. They are prohibitive to good oly lifting

I once read that Eastern European coaches believe it take 10,000 reps to get the technique right. That's with constant coaching. This is why having a coach is vital.

Good luck, and remember practice, practice, practice.......

I read that 10,000 rep thing as well, was also said that it takes 5x that many to relearn- so better to practise.

And your above post is why I love you Cleaver regardless of your some time sarky and.. patronizing comments hehe

Cheers brah

Don't call people brah. Only people in the teen section of Bodybuilding.com use that word.

Teen section?! how dare you.. ONLY TRUE MISCIANS CAN USE TEH WORD BRAH!!!!

IMPERSONATER!!!!!11

Matt wrote:

cleaver wrote:Ok

To paraphrase all the advice so far.

1. Find a coach
2. Choose a routine that allows plenty of practice
3. No ego lifting. Focus on improving your technique every session
4. Practice the lifts some more.
5. All assistance work must have carry over value to some aspect of the 2 lifts.
5. No BBing to build big gunz. They are prohibitive to good oly lifting

I once read that Eastern European coaches believe it take 10,000 reps to get the technique right. That's with constant coaching. This is why having a coach is vital.

Good luck, and remember practice, practice, practice.......

I read that 10,000 rep thing as well, was also said that it takes 5x that many to relearn- so better to practise.

And your above post is why I love you Cleaver regardless of your some time sarky and.. patronizing comments hehe

Cheers brah

Any more public shows of affection and I'll be forced to turn your little keekie winker into a giant angry red chasm