I'm trying to lean up a little and am slowly lowering carbs. Just wondering when you guys think carbs are most useful? I'm currently doing around 30 mins fasted cardio most days and some HIIT after weights sessions (if I feel like it). Be good if you could rank them.

Breakfast
Pre-workout
Post-workout shake
Post-workout meal

Pre workout.

Post workout no real need.

Unless you play a serious sport or do loads of HIIT cardio, it's unlikely you'll need post workout carbs.

From Next week, I'll be posting all the food, cardio, everything I do, so that might help a little...

roadz wrote:I'm trying to lean up a little and am slowly lowering carbs. Just wondering when you guys think carbs are most useful? I'm currently doing around 30 mins fasted cardio most days and some HIIT after weights sessions (if I feel like it). Be good if you could rank them.

Breakfast
Pre-workout
Post-workout shake
Post-workout meal

For fat loss


Breakfast - 20-30g wholemeal etc
Pre workout - fruit
Post Workout - depends on how low you are cutting cals and how much work you are doing in terms of training and cardio and hiit

I've got a good idea about it (I think) but just wanted to hear others' views.

For me, pre-workout carbs are more important then post-workout, but I'm enjoying different PWO sources atm (ginger ale/those Warburtons fruity loaves/etc), so I think I'll remove them from other meals in the day to start with. Then remove them from my PWO meal (but not my PWO shake) and then eventually remove them from my PWO shake also.

roadz wrote:I've got a good idea about it (I think) but just wanted to hear others' views.

For me, pre-workout carbs are more important then post-workout, but I'm enjoying different PWO sources atm (ginger ale/those Warburtons fruity loaves/etc), so I think I'll remove them from other meals in the day to start with. Then remove them from my PWO meal (but not my PWO shake) and then eventually remove them from my PWO shake also.

another thing to be aware of is Leptin - the whole leptin thing is very underrated but is key in ensuring you continue to get lean. Only way you can do that is carbs and refeeds...

An apple post workout would be good.

IMO Carb timing is a load of gumph unless you are you're low carbing or less than 120g carbs a day, and even then it only really matters if you are doing glycolytic exercise 4/5 days a week. Your body just dips into glycogen supplies during exercise and replenishes as and when available. PWO may have some benefits on protein synth but if i recall it's never above and beyond what straight protein will do on it's own. Although I havn't really looked into this stuff in a while.

Personally, outside of refeeds/leptin manipulation as KP said, i don't think nutrient timing really makes a differences in the long term when it comes to leaning up; it's just about hitting your calorie deficit and protein targets for the day, the rest is pretty irrelevant.

Got any good (read that as simple) info on leptin? My knowledge on the hormonal system is pretty limited (basially, I don't have a clue lol).

I'm not overly worried about nutrient timing, but if I'm gonna cut carbs, I may as well cut them from where I feel they're less useful. Obviously, the bigger picture is more important (macros, deficit, etc) but I may as well try and make some use of timing, even if the difference is minimal, it doesn't require much effort.

I think there is some relevance with timing to a degree but more relating to time of day rather than around when you exercise. In general more carbs earlier in the day and taper as you go through and look at say a carb cut off point of 6pm. This is dependant on when you exercise though. The other school of thought is to consume a fair amount of your carb intake after exercise. I wouldn't go immedeately after but maybe 60-90mins.

I would go with the rule that as long as you're not in excess and the carb sources are from whole foods, complex and unprocessed then timings shouldn't be much of an issue.

Personally I try to avoid fructose and sugars in any form these days. I generally get very low amounts of carbs throughout the day (except on refeed days where I'll have about 200g sweet spud) except for post WO where I have 20-40g of WMS.

roadz wrote:Got any good (read that as simple) info on leptin? My knowledge on the hormonal system is pretty limited (basially, I don't have a clue lol).

I'm not overly worried about nutrient timing, but if I'm gonna cut carbs, I may as well cut them from where I feel they're less useful. Obviously, the bigger picture is more important (macros, deficit, etc) but I may as well try and make some use of timing, even if the difference is minimal, it doesn't require much effort.

At a basic level

Leptin decreases when dieting by 50% in as little as 4-7 days. This is the bodies response to it thinking you are starving it and then it channels all efforts to hold on to what it has - hence the historial "its harder to lose weight as you get leaner".

The trick is to have a refeed of carbs and some fats every 4-6th days - no more than 300-400g is needed - the following day or on the same day have a high rep workout.

I prefer having all my carbs pwo. Tried PreWO and feel less alert and aggressive, not sluggish just a bit more relaxed.
On the other hand my morning/preWO meal of eggs, beetroot, peanut butter and coffee is awesome.

Try both, as others have said it's more about overall amount, cals and other macro's.

Cheers for all the input guys.

For now, I think I will take a similar approach to Rab:

Oats for breakfast
One protein + carb meal (for me, this will be pre-workout on workout days)
Simple carbs PWO
All other meals will be protein + some fats + incidental carbs

Also, gonna start eating more red meat, mostly in the form of chilli. My diet has been very consistent recently, I'm enjoying cardio and generally feeling quite healthy.

roadz wrote:Most important time to have carbs?

30mins before training & then immediately after and next meal after that. If you're fat then just go for 1st solid meal after training (but make sure it's within 2hrs).