Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

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Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby kp1512 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:34 pm

I want to give DC training a 6 week break now I am nearing the 2nd Blast.

I want to focus on a 4-5 week period where I can take advantage of increased thryoid and thus fat loss and leaness opportunity. There was alot of talk about lactic acid producing workouts and there effects on HGH and Fatloss and I wanted to try one of them for this period

Anyone have any further info?

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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby kp1512 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:51 pm

interesting

Lactic Acid Training for Fat Loss
by Charles Poliquin


Whenever an athlete shows up at my training facility looking like he has spent the better part of the off-season camped in front of Krispy Kreme Donuts, I immediately put him on a program that incorporates short rest intervals.

Short rest intervals lead to an increased production of lactate, and an increase in lactate leads to dramatic increases in Growth Hormone, thus resulting in very significant losses of body fat.

This method is called the "German Body Composition" program, or GBC for short.

While many people in the field–TC included–have professed skepticism that the exercise induced GH release was sufficient enough to cause significant fat burning, my personal experience with scores of athletes confirms the effect.

Consider that the typical amount of GH that professional bodybuilders inject each day is actually a smaller amount than that released by the pituitary during lactate training! In fact, if the program is done correctly, GH production is 9 times normal–enough to make an army of dwarves grow tall.

While the original GBC program proved to be very popular for lay people and the average athlete, I often use an advanced version of GBC for elite athletes and super conditioned amateurs.

Not only does Advanced GBC lead to dramatic fat loss, but it is also quite effective in growing muscle and developing muscular endurance.

At first glance, the program seems easy, perhaps ridiculously so, but if done properly, it is anything but easy. When I first presented a version of it to the National Judo Team, they laughed.

I simply challenged them to do 3 circuits of the following:

12 squats (at 12RM)
Rest 60 seconds
12 chins (at 12RM)
Rest 60 seconds
12 deadlifts (at 12 RM)
Rest 60 seconds
12 dips (at 12 RM)

Despite their confidence, they only completed one circuit and promptly turned green.

The first time I tried it with Marty LaPointe from the Detroit Red Wings, we practically had to put him on the plane in a wheel chair.

The secret to making it effective, though, is choosing the correct resistance. In the version of advanced GBC training I am about to present, you must choose weights that accurately reflect your 6RM of an exercise, your 12RM, and your 25RM.

In other words, you must pick an exercise that will crush your spleen after 6 reps, after 12 reps, and after 25 reps. You should have one eye pop out of its socket upon completion of the last rep, whether it is 6 reps, 12 reps, or 25 reps.


The Advanced GBC Program

You will perform 2 exercises each training session using the following split:

Day One: Chest and Back
Day Two: Legs
Day Three: Off
Day Four: Shoulders and Arms
Day Five: Off
Repeat

The cycle is meant to be performed 6 times. Doing it longer will result in diminishing returns.

Here are some suggested movements, along with the prescribed rest periods.


Day One: Chest and Back

A1. 6 Incline Dumbbell Presses at 45-degree angle
Rest 10 seconds
A2. 12 Incline Barbell Presses at 45-degree angle
Rest 10 seconds
A3. 25 Incline Dumbbell Press at 30-degree angle
Rest 2 minutes
Repeat 3 times

B1. 6 Weighted Chins
Rest 10 seconds
B2. 12 Bent-over Rows
Rest 10 seconds
B3. 25 Seated Cable Rows to Neck
Rest 2 minutes
Repeat 3 times

Day Two: Legs

A1. 6 Squats
Rest 10 seconds
A2. 12 Lunges
Rest 10 seconds
A3. 25 Leg Extensions
Rest 2 minutes
Repeat 3 times

B1. 6 Leg Curls
Rest 10 seconds
B2. 12 Romanian Dead Lifts
Rest 10 seconds
B3. 25 Reverse Hypers or Back Extensions
Rest 2 Minutes
Repeat 3 times

Day Three: Off

Day Four: Arms and Shoulders

A1. 6 Seated Dumbbell Presses
Rest 10 seconds
A2. 12 Seated Lateral Raises
Rest 10 seconds
A3. 25 Lateral Raises with Cables
Rest 2 minutes
Repeat 3 times

B1. 6 Dips or Close-Grip Bench Presses
Rest 10 seconds
B2. 12 Decline Barbell Extensions
Rest 10 seconds
B3. 25 Cable Pressdowns
Rest 2 minutes
Repeat 3 times

C1. 6 incline Dumbbell Curls
Rest 10 seconds
C2. 12 Standing Barbell Curls
Rest 10 seconds
C3. 25 Standing Pulley Curls
Rest 2 minutes
Repeat 3 times

Additional Notes:

• If you work out at a commercial gym, you might be hampered by slackers and fat cows who steal your exercise stations. As such, you may need to improvise and do different movements.

• Strive to do each circuit 3 times per workout. Progress to 4 circuits per workout after two or three weeks.

• Use a 40X0 tempo on the sets of 6; a 20X0 tempo on the sets of 12; and a 10X0 tempo on the sets of 25.

• You must use the entire 2-minute rest period. If you do not, you might not be able to use sufficient weight (or complete the prescribed reps), thus affecting lactate production

• Doing fewer reps tha what is prescribed will not elicit enough lactate and consequently not produce enough GH.

• These workouts demand a high level of motivation, so you had better be on something like Biotest’s Spike to help you complete the workout.

Additional Notes Regarding Fat Loss

As a reader of Testosterone Nation, I am going to assume you are familiar with rudimentary rules of proper eating. However, I would like to stress a few points that you might not have routinely considered.

First of all, keep in mind that approximately 75% of the American population simply does not do well with carbs. As such, try to eat carbohydrate foods that score below 50 on the glycemic index. The obvious exception to this is post workout, when it is recommended that you do eat high GI carbs, along with protein.

Secondly, simply eat more vegetables–lots more vegetables. That simple trick alone will help you burn fat. You might also consider gorging on the cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, and cabbage, as there seems to be an epidemic of "man boobs" in America. These vegetables are strongly anti-estrogenic, and including them in your diet could go a long way in eliminating this unsightly and decidedly embarrassing problem.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby simon m on Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:05 pm

My session today was small rest periods, plus drop sets to get the lactic acid build up.

By the end, I was sweating like a pig. I#ll be doing this for the rest of the month.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby cleaver on Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:41 pm

Your buddy Gareth83 did the Charlie P one during his cut.

I'd say look no further than Bison's current 10x3 routine. Its the biz for the lactic!
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Dtlv74 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:34 pm

Am glad someone started a thread on lactic acid and it's hormonal benefits - this is something I find very interesting and am playing with in my workouts at the moment.

Basically, what I'm doing isn't half as well thought out as the routine posted above, instead I'm just doing a four way split nicked from Orinoco (he has good ideas so I steal lots of them) with my own exercise selection;

Day 1 - Chest & Biceps
DB Incline Press 6 x 8-12
DB Curls 5 x 8-12
Gironda Dips 2 x 8-12
EZ Reverse Curls 3 x 8-12

Day 2 - Legs
Squats 6 x 8-12
Romanian Deadlifts 5 x 8-12
Front Squats 2 x 8
DB Lunges 2 x 8-12
DB Single Leg Calf Raise 4 x 25-30

Day 3 - Sod All

Day 4 - Back
Deadlift 4 x 6-8
Close Grip Underhand Chins 3 x 6-12
Bentover Rows 5 x 8-12
Powercleans 3 x 8-12
Wrist Curls 3 x 8-12

Day 5 - Shoulders & Triceps
DB Presses 5 x 8-12
Bentover Flyes 4 x 8-12
Closegrip Press 4 x 8-12
DB Overhead Extension - Lying Extension - Kickbacks (yes I know) superset 2 x 8-12
External Rotations - Forward - Side - Lying superset 2 x 8-12

Day 6 - Sod All

Am working to failure normally at 12 reps on the first set, 10 on the second etc with only around 20-30 secs rest between sets. The sessions are quick, and pump is immense and am so far really enjoying the workouts. The goal on each session is a real lactate burn.

Have only completed two cycles so far so is still very early days in terms of monitoring gains. Am planning to alternate between being progressive with weight lifted, reps performed and then time of workout in consecutive sessions for the same bodypart.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Orinoco on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:15 am

GBC does work, no question...I used to use it on clients, and myself.

Gareth's problem wasn't his training, it was his calorie consumption. When I see people on a 'cut' consuming over 10x bodyweight I just think it's unecessarily high. I personally prefer 10x LBM.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Rilla on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:23 am

Orinoco wrote:Gareth's problem wasn't his training, it was his calorie consumption. When I see people on a 'cut' consuming over 10x bodyweight I just think it's unecessarily high. I personally prefer 10x LBM.


I found this bit confusing, did you mean that: LBM in lbs x10 = target kcal on a cut?
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Orinoco on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:50 am

Rilla wrote:
Orinoco wrote:Gareth's problem wasn't his training, it was his calorie consumption. When I see people on a 'cut' consuming over 10x bodyweight I just think it's unecessarily high. I personally prefer 10x LBM.


I found this bit confusing, did you mean that: LBM in lbs x10 = target kcal on a cut?


Yes...you need to either be savvy and therefore be a able to judge your LBM, or get a caliper reading. The first is sufficient for most people who are around 13-14% and under, but over that it gets really hard to determine bf levels by visual cues alone.

So, then it's your lean body mass (i.e.170lbs) x 10 = 1700 cals daily.

In my experience, when you're under 10% then you might even need to drop 100-150 below this to get ripped...but that's an individual thing.

The bottom line is that most people over-estimate their cals on a cut, and therefore never get ripped.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Bison on Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:05 am

I've been thinking about my calorie consumption today. I lost a lot of weight very quickly when I dropped to 2500kcals but things have slowed so was thinking of lopping another 600kcals off my daily totals for 1900kcals. Just worried about losing lots of lean mass going that low though.

Would you add more calories on workout days Orinoco or just keep it a flat 1900kcals everyday?
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby kp1512 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:40 am

Bison wrote:I've been thinking about my calorie consumption today. I lost a lot of weight very quickly when I dropped to 2500kcals but things have slowed so was thinking of lopping another 600kcals off my daily totals for 1900kcals. Just worried about losing lots of lean mass going that low though.

Would you add more calories on workout days Orinoco or just keep it a flat 1900kcals everyday?


Bison

One thing that works for a lot of the BB's is to cycle it.

So in your casem 1900 for 3 days, then around 4-6 hours of the 4th day have a period where you go to 2,700..the net effect will still be a big defecit over the week......

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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Orinoco on Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:35 am

Bison wrote:I've been thinking about my calorie consumption today. I lost a lot of weight very quickly when I dropped to 2500kcals but things have slowed so was thinking of lopping another 600kcals off my daily totals for 1900kcals. Just worried about losing lots of lean mass going that low though.

Would you add more calories on workout days Orinoco or just keep it a flat 1900kcals everyday?


On workout days you could go to 2100kcals, but don't get carried away. You'll look flatter for sure, but actual muscle tissue loss? That would be negligable. Most people who bang on about 'that's not enough calories' and 'losing muscle' are the same people who've never been lower than 12%, let alone 10%.

I personally only go 100kcals higher on workout days, but everyone's different.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Orinoco on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:38 pm

If you're worried about lower calories affecting metabolic rate, just take your temperature every morning. It's a Thibaudeau tip I picked up....each drop of more than 1 degree indicates a decrease in metabolic rate of around 10%. So when body temp has been down by 1 degree for 2-3 days, it's time to up calories for a day. But still, don't go crazy, 400 extra cals should be plenty.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Bison on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:02 pm

Ok cheers geeza's....

down....


down...

to 1900kcals I go! :|
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Rilla on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:06 pm

Uhm 1900.... :o
I think I consume around 3500-4000..... :D

1900 is just wow...
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Bison on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:09 pm

Yes it is lol! I think the lowest I've ever gone on a cut is 2000kcals and on workout days I'd add another 400, so this will be my lowest ever.

I'm going to aim for roughly 200g Protein, 50g Carbs, 100g Fat. I'll probably run with that for a few days and when I feel carb depleted I'll up the carbs for a day, maybe two.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Orinoco on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:36 pm

Bison wrote:Yes it is lol! I think the lowest I've ever gone on a cut is 2000kcals and on workout days I'd add another 400, so this will be my lowest ever.

I'm going to aim for roughly 200g Protein, 50g Carbs, 100g Fat. I'll probably run with that for a few days and when I feel carb depleted I'll up the carbs for a day, maybe two.


That looks like a good macro breakdown for non-training days. Then 50 g carbs extra on workout days....you should drop fat fast on that. You're still on the Waterbury for fat loss training right?

EDIT: For anyone who thinks that's a little low, once you factor in tea/coffee, BCAA/Glutamine/other amino's and fish oil caps, it's probably about 2100 cals.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Bison on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:45 pm

Orinoco wrote:That looks like a good macro breakdown for non-training days. Then 50 g carbs extra on workout days....you should drop fat fast on that. You're still on the Waterbury for fat loss training right?

EDIT: For anyone who thinks that's a little low, once you factor in tea/coffee, BCAA/Glutamine/other amino's and fish oil caps, it's probably about 2100 cals.

I've just finished the 4 week cycle of CW 10x3 but I'm thinking I might extend it? Not 100% sure yet I'll have a think about it tonight.

Interesting edit there mate, I include everything except certain veg when I'm breaking down my calorie intake. BCAA/Glutamine get counted as 1g of protein and 4kcals. Example today I've had 10g Glutamine and 10g EAA's today so that's 20g protein and 80kcals noted down. With coffee I have full-fat milk which is approx 50kcals per serv.

So maybe my 2300kcals isn't too far from you as it is?
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby ollie on Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:09 pm

Orinoco wrote:On workout days you could go to 2100kcals, but don't get carried away. You'll look flatter for sure, but actual muscle tissue loss? That would be negligable. Most people who bang on about 'that's not enough calories' and 'losing muscle' are the same people who've never been lower than 12%, let alone 10%.


I think you're 100% spot on there dude. Thinking back to when I managed to get really ripped, early on in my training, I was on a far greater deficit than I've created ever since. I didn't lose a noticeable amount of strength back then, and yes I did look flatter, but as soon as you start eating again you know how much muscle you've lost.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Orinoco on Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:00 pm

Bison wrote:Interesting edit there mate, I include everything except certain veg when I'm breaking down my calorie intake. BCAA/Glutamine get counted as 1g of protein and 4kcals. Example today I've had 10g Glutamine and 10g EAA's today so that's 20g protein and 80kcals noted down. With coffee I have full-fat milk which is approx 50kcals per serv.

So maybe my 2300kcals isn't too far from you as it is?


Or that your 2500 cals was more like 2900cals?

You could stick to your current counting methods as they're consistant, and then when things slow up do a strict 2000 cals/day. I've always found the leaner you get the more efficient your body gets, and therefore anabolic - so you hold onto mass easier on lower daily calories.

As for my counting methods, I exclude BCAA's/glutamine and efa capsules which would add around 300 cals (I use concentrated capsules with esterfied efa's which keep the dose high but the cals low). I don't drink tea/coffee on a cut so that's not an issue. Might need to re-assess myself actually and include that in my daily totals....
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Alex on Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:27 pm

Quite interesting but this could equally be down to the nature of the training simply using up more calories.

I get pretty servere lactic build up due to the sheer volume and I guess I stay pretty lean but I could also just as easily attribute this to calorie burn.

As a side note I'd say using OKG definately has some fat burning properties as I think that majotiry using it have experienced a slightly leaner and harder body composition.

what would also be interesting would be to test blood PH levels in the muscle during and immediately after the above method of training.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby kp1512 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:52 pm

Id agree...although I think the increase in Hormone levels is pretty conclusive...but then hey every goddamn study is floored in someway!

I am going tostart this today for 6 weeks

Do you think its worth while changing it so that I pick an exercise and do 6 / 12 and then 25 reps....and then move to another exercice for the body part?...say total of 3?

I wont be able to do a cycle method as itll get taken....

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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Alex on Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:25 pm

I think unless you have an empty gym and are able to set up the weights each time each triple set then you may have to adopt to the same movement. Only problem I can foresee is how feasible sticking to that rep scheme may be due to using the same movement where as changing movements will use slighly different manipulation.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby kp1512 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:31 pm

Alex wrote:I think unless you have an empty gym and are able to set up the weights each time each triple set then you may have to adopt to the same movement. Only problem I can foresee is how feasible sticking to that rep scheme may be due to using the same movement where as changing movements will use slighly different manipulation.


thats my concern as well...have to play it by ear I think...today is Chest and Shoulders...so Ill see what I can do...

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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby health4ni on Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:45 pm

GBC is what I use a lot on my clients. Works well.

Not everyone will respond to it as others might; but that's probably due to some sort of nutrient deficiency or nasties in the body (mercury, pesticides etc).

Poliquin's GBC is now a wee bit different to the one quoted at the top of the article. Not that the one up there is bad; far from it... in fact it's good to change and yet maintain a similar training protocol.
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Re: Lactic Acid and Hormone Promoting Workouts!

Postby Dtlv74 on Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:00 pm

I just posted this on MP but thought it might be useful to add here too since it relates to this thread. Is a nice article which explains in simple terms the function of lactic acid in exercise.

Ten Things You should know about Lactic Acid


By Mike Boone & Thomas Fahey Ed.D., Professor of Exercise Physiology, California State University at Chico

1. Lactic acid is formed from the breakdown of glucose.

During this process the cells make ATP (adenosine triphosphate), which provides energy for most of the chemical reactions in the body. Lactic acid formation doesn't use oxygen, so the process is often called anaerobic metabolism. Lactate-related ATP production is small but very fast. This makes it ideal for satisfying energy needs anytime exercise intensity exceeds 50% of maximum capacity.

2. Lactic acid doesn't cause muscle soreness and cramps.

Delayed onset muscle soreness, the achy sensation in your muscles the day after a tough workout, is caused by muscle damage and post-exercise tissue inflammation. Most muscle cramps are caused by muscle nervous receptors that become overexcitable with muscle fatigue.

Many athletes use massage, hot baths, and relaxation techniques to help them rid their muscles of lactic acid and thus relieve muscle soreness and cramping. While these techniques probably have other benefits, getting rid of lactic acid isn't one of them. Lactate is used rapidly for fuel during exercise and recovery and doesn't remain in the muscles like motor oil.

3. The body produces lactic acid whenever it breaks down carbohydrates for energy.

The faster you break down glucose and glycogen the greater the formation of lactic acid. At rest and submaximal exercise, the body relies mainly on fats for fuel. However, when you reach 50% of maximum capacity, the threshold intensity for most recreational exercise programs, the body "crosses over" and used increasingly more carbohydrates to fuel exercise. The more you use carbohydrates as fuel, the more lactic acid you produce.

4. Lactic acid can be formed in muscles that are receiving enough oxygen.


As you increase the intensity of exercise, you rely more and more on fast-twitch muscle fibers. These fibers use mainly carbohydrates to fuel their contractions. As discussed, whenever you break down carbohydrates for energy, your muscles produce lactic acid. The faster you go, the more fast-twitch muscles you use. Consequently, you use more carbohydrates as fuel and produce more lactic acid. Increased blood lactic acid means only that the rate of entry of lactic acid into the blood exceeds the removal rate. Oxygen has little to do with it.

5. Many tissues, particularly skeletal muscles, continuously produce and use lactic acid.


Blood levels of lactic acid reflect the balance between lactic acid production and use. An increase in lactic acid concentration does not necessarily mean that the lactic acid production rate was increased. Lactic acid may increase because of a decreased rate of removal from blood or tissues.

Lactic acid production is proportional to the amount of carbohydrates broken down for energy in the tissues. Whenever you use carbohydrates, a significant portion is converted to lactate. This lactate is then used in the same tissues as fuel, or it is transported to other tissues via the blood stream and used for energy. Rapid use of carbohydrate for fuel, such as during intense exercise, accelerates lactic acid produciton. Temporarily, lactic acid builds up in your muscles and blood because it can't be used as fuel fast enough. However, if you slow down the pace of exercise or stop exercising, the rate of lactate used for energy soon catches up with the rate of lactate production.

Dr. George Brooks, a Professor from the Department of Integrative Biology at University of California at Berkeley, described the dynamic production and use of lactic acid in metabolism in his "Lactate Shuttle Theory." This theory describes the central role of lactic acid in carbohydrate metabolism and it's importance as a fuel for metabolism.


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Last edited by Dtlv74 on Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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