Been very interested in HST this last wek and was for sure it was the way to go for me next. Bison has had proven great results and I liked the idea of working up to your maxes. However, I feel that the first 8 weeks is a very long-winded way of getting to the big lifts you're already at. So I thought(probably not enough) about doing this...

Now that I have most of my 15, 10, 5RMs for the moves I wanna do, I was wandering if there would be any merit in doing the HST in a more condensed but progressive way. So here's my suggestion and if you think it's garbage please don't be polite, but also please be sure to say so with some reasons as I have never actually, from scratch designed a new routine or set specific deadlines for myself other than weight loss.

3 days per week - sun, tues, fri weight days and 40 mins cardio all other days alternate A/B exercises

EXAMPLE:
Squats

Curls

Bench

BOR

Shrugs

Any Bi Curl BB/DB

Any Tri Move

Calves

Abs

OK - here's the possibly dumbass bit, My proposal is as so-

ALL moves at 3 sets = 5RM*5, 10RM to just short of failure, 15RM to just short of failure...

Progression will be to add weight when I can get the full sets out...


Hahaha - I just read that and think it's bollocks myself - looks like an overtraining nightmare to me now but I'll leave it up so you guys can laugh- I'll probably stick to HST after all - rather than an early grave

In all honesty mate.. sounds like something that MJWild would do

Thinking on, a more likely condensed HST would be a light, medium, heavy day split... But I've already passed over that. How about if I weren't to go to near failure on the 10RM and 15RM but aimed at spcific numbers like 6 and 10 respectively and then progress...still cuckoo I guess...that's it, I'm going to bed before I say anything else dumb!

Marks1972 wrote:In all honesty mate.. sounds like something that MJWild would do

Bloody hell!!!! where did you come from??? Thank heavens - another living soul - I was going forum crazy on my own...

Hehe, ive had 8 hours sleep though

I don't think you've understood it properly.

The first 8 weeks? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

You will be hitting PBs on EVERY exercise at the end of each phase. For example, when you get to the two heavy days of 15s, you should hit a PB on every single movement. The same when you get to the heavy 10s and the same again with the heavy 5s.

The point is to have your muscles in a state of hypertrohpy throughout the entire cycle.

Do the route how it should be done, it does not need changing.

Why don't more people do Escalating Density Training [EDT]? Charles Staley's been doing his thing for as long as I've been training (15+ yrs) and knows his stuff. EDT is one of the best routines I've done. It's also very easy to follow and he actually encourages you to modify/adapt the basic premise to your own needs.


http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do;jsessionid=CAC54BDFFE4A25581413D2AE8A31ACE4.hydra?id=459765

Well worth a gander.....

Orinoco wrote:Why don't more people do Escalating Density Training [EDT]? Charles Staley's been doing his thing for as long as I've been training (15+ yrs) and knows his stuff. EDT is one of the best routines I've done. It's also very easy to follow and he actually encourages you to modify/adapt the basic premise to your own needs.


http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do;jsessionid=CAC54BDFFE4A25581413D2AE8A31ACE4.hydra?id=459765

Well worth a gander.....

I haven't followed this specific routine but have trained with this general philosphy at times and totally agree - it's a great one for hypertrophy. Doing more work within the same time is such a basic system of progression that it often gets little mention when people talk about training strategies... but it sure does work.

It also fits in well with the current en vogue concept on this forum of lactate training...

Quite interesting read.

I have thought of something similar in the past crossed a little with DC where for a set you try and hit as many reps as possible in a given time limit (say 60 secs) and to improve on this week after week.

Orinoco wrote:Why don't more people do Escalating Density Training [EDT]? Charles Staley's been doing his thing for as long as I've been training (15+ yrs) and knows his stuff. EDT is one of the best routines I've done. It's also very easy to follow and he actually encourages you to modify/adapt the basic premise to your own needs.


http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do;jsessionid=CAC54BDFFE4A25581413D2AE8A31ACE4.hydra?id=459765

Well worth a gander.....

Hey cheers or that link, that's a very cool method. I always keep that Work formula in my head whem I'm on loading at work - People there think I'm crazy but I make a game of it - try n break my own record.

I've seen that method incorporated into various routines in other T-Nation articles but never based around it. It's nice to see someone say just get the weight up and down rather than in specific tempo - this fits nicely with my work ethic - it might not be pretty but it's done! Not sure I want it as my training thic though... Good ethic for cardio/fitness though.

Definately food for thought though. Having a deadline would cause a different reaction to stress - I think some may find it overloading where as some would relish the challenge and the time factor might push them through plateaus.

Wardie wrote:I don't think you've understood it properly.

The first 8 weeks? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

You will be hitting PBs on EVERY exercise at the end of each phase. For example, when you get to the two heavy days of 15s, you should hit a PB on every single movement. The same when you get to the heavy 10s and the same again with the heavy 5s.

The point is to have your muscles in a state of hypertrohpy throughout the entire cycle.

Do the route how it should be done, it does not need changing.

This is from the HST site

• All maxes should be established before beginning the first cycle. Your maxes will determine what weights you will use throughout the entire cycle. Find your 15 rep, 10 rep, and 5 rep max lifts for each exercise you are going to use. For the second cycle simply add 5-10 pounds to all lifts.

As stated above, the first cycle you work up to your current maxes. That's 6 weeks, with a possible eccentric week at the end and then a de-load. So for the first 8 weeks, it's not progression, it's more conditioning... 2/3 of the time you aren' working at full potential although the frequency that you hit each muscle is much more than you would in a split routine.

To me, in essence HST is a full body, 3day/week designed for Hypertrophy(by avoiding failure) rather than strength. Yet Orinocco has posted up an almost entirley contradictory method for achieving hypertrophy. However, I'm yet to establish the comparison between the possible work down(by each muscle) over a longer period of time - eg an 8 week cycle.

Well I have another couple of weeks so I might get a calculator out...