A little help peep's with puting this one together.

Im looking to do 3-4 day program with the core days Mon, Wed & Sat...also on Thursdays when i can.

Min golas are to add thickness, increase power and strength and as a bi-product maybe a littl size.

Things i really want to work on is my deadlifting and pulling, inparticualr things of theclean & press variety (power cland, hang cleans, push press etc etc)

I'm also keen to work on my bodyweight exercises

I dont want to ignore my ams. they do lag a little i think.

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ANy suggestions based n that?

Iv found since doing Oly movements off the floor and mixing in posterior chain exercises in every session my deadlift has increased by ridiculous amounts even though I don't do it in my sessions. Maybe try something slightly different and don't dead for a few weeks, do more oly stuff and see what happens?

What is your programme like at the mo? I never really read journels.

Just a breif outline on what you do on those days and what not.

I train with a bodybuilding high intensity DC routine if that makes any sense to you?

Don't train like a bodybuilder. Train like a rugby player (for example). One legs day a week is what bodybuilders do, and from personal experience is fine for them (and you if that's what you want), but for your goals then I'd do a legs / posterior chain exercise almost every time you train.

Ever looked into the westside training method?

I think with what you are looking for this could work for you. I have used it in the past and now use a modified version of it that i adapted myself.

Speed days and heavy days. Just what you need really.

Give it a google and let me know what you think.

health4ni wrote:Don't train like a bodybuilder. Train like a rugby player (for example). One legs day a week is what bodybuilders do, and from personal experience is fine for them (and you if that's what you want), but for your goals then I'd do a legs / posterior chain exercise almost every time you train.

Scott - how would that work - as in training them everyday / every time you train?..what kind of work would you do?

kp1512 wrote:

health4ni wrote:Don't train like a bodybuilder. Train like a rugby player (for example). One legs day a week is what bodybuilders do, and from personal experience is fine for them (and you if that's what you want), but for your goals then I'd do a legs / posterior chain exercise almost every time you train.

Scott - how would that work - as in training them everyday / every time you train?..what kind of work would you do?

Watch this space

Only reason I ask is that there are 3 Rugby Players at the DL I am at and just been watching them train a few times and they dont have do odd things. Im sure they arent as knowledgable but then they could be doing something Scott just referred to. But there legs overpower literally everything else - looks odd but guess they need to? Like one of the guys can squat 4 plates a side for 10 and 12's with ease - yet cant for example shoulder press more than 90kg?.....

Agree with Scott, only been training full body for 2 months now, but even though im training for strength ive put on a a lot of quality mass, my traps and delts in particular are noticeably larger.

Training the lower body once a week is for the beach body brigade.. and no one goes to the beach in Scotland

Id say keep it simple rabby, plenty of heavy, classic barbell work and BW stuff.

Westside might be a little bit too specific for you, taking elements of Crossfit's methods might be better suited as you have good CV capacity and are good at BW exercises.

Rab - Have you looked at the 10x3 also that everyone raves about?

Thats used for fat burning/recomp isnt it KP?

Marks1972 wrote:Thats used for fat burning/recomp isnt it KP?

LOL - woops!

Wasnt there one that was in the 3-5 rep range that also is for strenght and size?

kp1512 wrote:

Marks1972 wrote:Thats used for fat burning/recomp isnt it KP?

LOL - woops!

Wasnt there one that was in the 3-5 rep range that also is for strenght and size?

Yes. The same program but with more rest between sets and a higher % of 1rm to be used.

Ok. Cheers for the suggestions. Ill spend a bit of time looking into them this afternoon.

Mark - thats exactly what i want to do, but i'm just not sure how to structure it as i like to get the very most out of each exercise..ie notwanting to hit deadsand power cleans on the same day if that makes sense?

Im not sure about that 10x3 Chad program K and Chop. WHat do you's think of it?

cleaver wrote:

kp1512 wrote:

Marks1972 wrote:Thats used for fat burning/recomp isnt it KP?

LOL - woops!

Wasnt there one that was in the 3-5 rep range that also is for strenght and size?

Yes. The same program but with more rest between sets and a higher % of 1rm to be used.

Isn't that bordering on clusters?

kp1512 wrote:Only reason I ask is that there are 3 Rugby Players at the DL I am at and just been watching them train a few times and they dont have do odd things. Im sure they arent as knowledgable but then they could be doing something Scott just referred to. But there legs overpower literally everything else - looks odd but guess they need to? Like one of the guys can squat 4 plates a side for 10 and 12's with ease - yet cant for example shoulder press more than 90kg?.....

It's all about Leg Drive though as the running aspect is the most important for speed, running through a tackle, rucks, etc... plus the lower centre of gravity makes it harder to stop someone.

I have a friend doing Chad's 10x3 for fat loss and its doing wonders, i intend to do after im done with 5x5 if i can get over the psychological wall of thinking i need to be bigger all the time. He isnt interested in mass or strength tho, so he's not really monitoring the effects in that respect. He looks a lot better but its hard to tell if he's put on muscle weight due to the effect of lower bodyfat giving the optical illusion of more muscle.

I put a fair bit of thought into my current program Rab trying to not certain exercises on same day or even 1 session away from each other, but to be honest, with a 48 hour break between sessions, i think anyway who's not totally new to training should be able train a body part again with no problems.

I certainly have no issues deadlifting and front squatting on a friday then squatting and high pulling on a sunday.

So it can be done, you just have to realise that its not hitting each bodypart 1 or 2 times a week type deal and your not trying to annhilate the muscle every time you go in the gym.

Rab wrote:Ok. Cheers for the suggestions. Ill spend a bit of time looking into them this afternoon.

Mark - thats exactly what i want to do, but i'm just not sure how to structure it as i like to get the very most out of each exercise..ie notwanting to hit deadsand power cleans on the same day if that makes sense?

Im not sure about that 10x3 Chad program K and Chop. WHat do you's think of it?

It's great for fat loss. Not really suited to strength training IMO but might work for a strength / hypertrophy hybrid.

Not sure why you want to change what you are doing as it works.

If you want to get good at deadlifts set one day a week aside for deadlifts and hammer your arms on that day too.

Do DC on the other days to cover everything as you do now.

To get good at dead lifting you have to dead lift. There is no two ways about it. Hence why i said to maybe try to modify your own westside template. Using speed and power days.

So one day heavy squat and light pulls then the reverse for the other day of the week. So for example:
Session 1:
Squat heavy, light dead lifts

Session 2:
Box squat light, heavy pulls.

This gives you chance to work on your technique on the light/speed days and to try and build that explosiveness that you can try to carry over to your heavy days.

3 full body sessions?

I reckon what i'm doing atm sounds like it may suit you.

monday - squats (heavy - ie. 5x5) Shoulders (8x3), Chins (5x5), Calves, Biceps
wednesday - Powerclean (or other power exercise - 5x5) Bench (1x5), Pullups (8x3), lateral raise
friday - RDL/Deads (Max - 1 x 5) Heavy chest (5x5) , Rows (8x3)

This would pack some strength and power onto ya.

How is the 5x5

Anyone got any sample splits? -

Lots to think about there. Thnks for the input. I have a little unfinished business yet in this blast of training then i'm going to try out some stuff for a few weeks to see what suits

Cheers

Karlos wrote:3 full body sessions?

I reckon what i'm doing atm sounds like it may suit you.

monday - squats (heavy - ie. 5x5) Shoulders (8x3), Chins (5x5), Calves, Biceps
wednesday - Powerclean (or other power exercise - 5x5) Bench (1x5), Pullups (8x3), lateral raise
friday - RDL/Deads (Max - 1 x 5) Heavy chest (5x5) , Rows (8x3)

This would pack some strength and power onto ya.

Very similar to what I was going to suggest. Full body three times per week, making sure each major bodypart is worked at least twice directly is IMO a very effective routine. No more than five or six exercises per session with focus on compounds... you get the idea

Designing a training programme with this much information is like guesswork, I feel guilty if I make anything more precise than odd recommendations.

A couple of little tips.
- If you want to work on olympic style movements do them first in the workout, keep reps low and sets high. They are complex lifts and high rep variations are fantastic for messing up your motor patterns.
- Simpler movements like deadlifts, rack pulls and squats can be done afterwards
- A good programme I have tried involves pulling from different heights on different days so...

if you were deadlifting only you could pull from a platform on workout 1, from the floor on workout 2 and rack pull on 3, repeat with heavier weights.

If you were doing it for cleans then you could start from the floor, then hang cleans from the knee and hang cleans from the thigh.

Its good for those who get bored easily but allows for very comfortable weight progression without having to smash yourself into the ground with crazy volume.