I have taken my deadlifts (along with calf and trap work) into its own workout just now to ensue that they get plenty of time and effort, but also to ensure that upper back is given its own day

Looking to re-structure back workout to something more suitable for this reason as the back thickenss is partly covered elsewhere.

Width is gotta be my primary aim in the upper back session. my lats tie in pretty high so anything i can do to help develop the lower end of things as best i can would be of a huge benefit. For this reason i think that the motorbike cable rows are going to be in there. been hiting these for a couple of weeks and liking how they feel.

Ive been starting on wide grip pullups for ages so want to change that

I would quite like to do some close grip palms facing pulldowns perhaps for a change.

can do rear delts with db's or the pec deck/fly machine on reverse mode

So was thinking

bent over rows/yates rows
close grip pulldowns
Motorcycle cable rows
WG Pullups (side to side a la health4NI)
Rear delt db's - thinking single arm to let me use a decent weight and get it nice and high for a good contraction which is difficult when heavy and doign both sides at once.

Volume is pretty low but quite a bit of variety. some "feeler" sets, 1 heavy set and 1 lighter very very slow negatives squeezy set per exercise. after the bent rows, its only really 1 warm up to get hte feel of the movement/get into the groove then straight into the heavy set

tbh I don't see the point of doing any rear-delt work with all that back pulling. Maybe 1 super-set of bent-over rear raises though.

btw the side-to-side pullups can be done one of two ways:
1. Pull to left hand, then lower back to starting position, then pull to right-hand, lower to starting position, repeat.
2. Pull to left hand, then whilst "up" move across to right hand, then lower back to starting position, then pull to right-hand, move across to left hand, then lower to starting position, repeat

Both work.

The latter is harder and is what I do.

See what you are saying about the rear delts. It really is just a set at the end at a cost of 2 sets, less than 5 min between us.

Think ill go with the former this week. See how they go. Wanted to try something fresh and those make sense i think especially after doing unilateral work with the cable motorbike rows previous if you se where im coming from

Pull Ups (especially mixed grip or medium reverse grip), T-Bars and BOR's work well here.

My rear delts have grown a lot from a couple of sets of lat raises/bent raises. I do a fair bit of pulling etc, but cause my lats and traps are so strong they usually take the brunt of the work on compounds ad i was left with very poor rear delt development - not good for shoulder health.

They won't help with width specifically, but for general upper back hammering I'm a big fan of rack pulls- I'd certainly use them over BORs any day of the week.

If lats are the focus of your quest then you need to hit them as directly as possible. IMO straight arm pull downs isolate the lats better than anything else.

For the lower lat tie in there is no better than yates rows IMO.

Chuck in some cable rows to finish.

I know this means no pull ups but you've been bashing them for ages so a break from them might be the best thing.

cleaver wrote:If lats are the focus of your quest then you need to hit them as directly as possible. IMO straight arm pull downs isolate the lats better than anything else.

For the lower lat tie in there is no better than yates rows IMO.

Chuck in some cable rows to finish.

I know this means no pull ups but you've been bashing them for ages so a break from them might be the best thing.

Agree on straight arm pull downs - close grip bent arm pullovers are a similar movement with a similar effect too i think, and a hugely under rated and under used back exercise.

Am not so sure on yates rows - i find these awkward and they tend to strain my shoulders. This could be that i don't have the form right quite though as I haven't done that much of them.

The best free weight rowing exercise I think is one arm rows where you really stretch down at the bottom and when pulling up you slightly angle your body upwards too to allow a really tight contraction. A fantastic variation of this which I found looking at some real old school bodybuilding routines (circa 1950's) is one arm rows with a short barbell (or EZ bar) held parallel to the line of the body instead of using a dumbbell. You look a tool doing it, but the change in balance required when gripping a bar exactly in the middle with just one hand seems to force perfect form and really hit the lats perfectly.

The best chin/pullup variation I've found for lower lats is a hands close together neutral/hammer grip chin up.

For rear delts standard bentover laterals do awesome things for me - i dont train them every shoulder session anymore as if i do my rear delts overtake my puny front and side delts in size!

Agree with you det, hammer chins, DB rows and bent lat raises are great.

I also would have thought yates row have more emphasis on the upper back than the tie in, or am i being a bit slow with my bodybuilder terminology?

Karlos wrote:I also would have thought yates row have more emphasis on the upper back than the tie in, or am i being a bit slow with my bodybuilder terminology?

Only people who do hunched shrugs hit the upper back more.
Usually the result of ego lifting!!

Low blow Chopper lol

On the subject of Yates rows for lower lats - for sure. You need to get the movement right though and realise you are pulling the weight into your belly as if your pulling backward, rather than upward rowing which is the mistake easy made.

Rab wrote:On the subject of Yates rows for lower lats - for sure. You need to get the movement right though and realise you are pulling the weight into your belly as if your pulling backward, rather than upward rowing which is the mistake easy made.

Exactly right. If you study pictures of Dorian he has quite a bend at the knees and hip. This is the key to hitting the lower lats hard.

Spit wrote:They won't help with width specifically, but for general upper back hammering I'm a big fan of rack pulls- I'd certainly use them over BORs any day of the week.

x2
All I ever do is rack pulls, pullups and the occasional hang clean...
Works well for me.

Bastards!

Those APT straps are still going though - decent bit of kit.

Try ths;
Deads
chns wth bdy n a 45deg angle away frm bar, really gets the lwer lat
db bor actually stand allmst straght as u contract at the squeeze, excellent exercse fr wht u need.

Max wrote:Try ths;
Deads
chns wth bdy n a 45deg angle away frm bar, really gets the lwer lat
db bor actually stand allmst straght as u contract at the squeeze, excellent exercse fr wht u need.

lol, have the vowels gone missing from your keyboard Max? s knd f hrd t rd wtht thm!

Dtlv74 wrote:

Max wrote:Try ths;
Deads
chns wth bdy n a 45deg angle away frm bar, really gets the lwer lat
db bor actually stand allmst straght as u contract at the squeeze, excellent exercse fr wht u need.

lol, have the vowels gone missing from your keyboard Max? s knd f hrd t rd wtht thm!

Its like trying to understand someone from right up north, sounds like the radio's broken

Alex wrote:Bastards!

Those APT straps are still going though - decent bit of kit.

They're a tough bit of kit.

Dtlv74 wrote:

Max wrote:Try ths;
Deads
chns wth bdy n a 45deg angle away frm bar, really gets the lwer lat
db bor actually stand allmst straght as u contract at the squeeze, excellent exercse fr wht u need.

lol, have the vowels gone missing from your keyboard Max? s knd f hrd t rd wtht thm!

Yes! d0g went mad n scratche d0ff keys

Max wrote:

Dtlv74 wrote:

Max wrote:Try ths;
Deads
chns wth bdy n a 45deg angle away frm bar, really gets the lwer lat
db bor actually stand allmst straght as u contract at the squeeze, excellent exercse fr wht u need.

lol, have the vowels gone missing from your keyboard Max? s knd f hrd t rd wtht thm!

Yes! d0g went mad n scratche d0ff keys

Ahhh bless. Hope she doesn't get sick if she's eaten any of the keys.

Rab, face pulls for rear delts?

Give us a brief description of face pulls GB. never done them. Google isnt being very clear on them.

Is that the ones where you use the low cable with a rope attachment and pull it up into your face contracting traps and rear delts?

That's the one!

Have a look about 3/4 of the way down this page!

I miss cable face pulls. DBs just don't hit the same spot.

GymBunny wrote:That's the one!

Have a look about 3/4 of the way down this page!

Good call, I meant to suggest them as well but forgot because I'm a bit challenged. The thing I really like about face pulls is that as well as hitting your rear delts they're one of the few exercises that work your lower traps, which can only help your posture and make you look better all round (and improve your shoulder health, not that smackhead Weegie bodybuilders are supposed to care about that sort of thing).