to be honest I am quite disappointed in the supplement industry- the only true fatburners that seemingly do anything are the sympathomimetics- ephedrine etc

surely there must be other ways of increasing lipolysis

Is yominbine illegal? Cause I've heard of good results with that.

yohimbine does work, but doesn't last. i.e. you stop it;'s use and "fat burning" halts.

Correct solid food nutrition is the key to fat loss.

health4ni wrote:yohimbine does work, but doesn't last. i.e. you stop it;'s use and "fat burning" halts.

Correct solid food nutrition is the key to fat loss.

Anyone got any thoughts on the transdermal yohimbine?

A colleague used it and said it worked very well. He applied it to his belly (below his belly button) and he def saw a reduction. But noted that when he stopped it "came back".

Craig wrote:

health4ni wrote:yohimbine does work, but doesn't last. i.e. you stop it;'s use and "fat burning" halts.

Correct solid food nutrition is the key to fat loss.

Anyone got any thoughts on the transdermal yohimbine?

It will release the fat but you still have to burn it through exercise etc.

Craig wrote:

health4ni wrote:yohimbine does work, but doesn't last. i.e. you stop it;'s use and "fat burning" halts.

Correct solid food nutrition is the key to fat loss.

Anyone got any thoughts on the transdermal yohimbine?

look at Yohimburn or the old transdermal made by Avant labs lipoderm I think that was the dogs bollox. Not sure if its been pulled though?

yohimbine is one of the worst for the jitters, much worse than ephedrine.

I always found Twin Labs Diet fuel was decent enough but thats pretty hard to find now. Think it was a simple mix of l carnitine and green tea and a few other token things.

I think transdermal Y works, just a pain in the arse with its application.
You would better off doing a homebrew that way you could add a few more goodies, raspberry ketones, capsaicin etc

There are rate limiting factors to fatburning, so if you added some pyruvate and salvia m you need not worry about those ffa,s being redeposited.

julesm wrote:surely there must be other ways of increasing lipolysis

Cardio and lowering sugary carbs. Or take lots of t3. Am not a fan of the concept of using supplements as fat burners to be honest... in general i think people have unrealistic expectations, wanting to be packing on the muscle and get leaner all at once and doing both at the fastest rate... or to get lean whilst stuffing their faces and not doing any exercise.

While you can lean out and get more muscle at the same time, to do either most efficently people have to recognise that the other aspect will be less efficient. Is how the body is designed.

Some supplements can make a difference, especially the thermogenic ones, but i don't think there will ever be a (legal and safe) supp that makes more than a very slight one.

Adipokinetix - say no more. The best and only supplment for Fat Loss. That product did exactly what it said on the tin and deliver results for all.

without a doubt adipo and lipo were definite timber shifters
i appreciate the comments on no substitute for exercise and diet etc, could it be construed that the same criticism could be applied to steroids insofar as, a good diet and training will reap the same rewards after a few years??

i think my whole point of the thread was that there has not been anything developed which has not been thermogenic and adrenergic in its effects.

perhaps the human body can only burn fat in the presence of these hormones (adrenaline, noradrenaline)

You could add HGH to the list in theory.

An uncoupler like Usnic acid could be added to the list i suppose, I think thats included in lipoderm? Albeit in small doses.

rob, again UA is a thermogenic uncoupler,
alex, I have heard that hgh is a bit of a myth: if you dont take it without a myriad of other drugs, it will just lean you out. i have known one or two people who have taken it as a standalone, and must say it appeared to be a complete waste of cash

just goes to show evolution, our bodies fight tooth and nail to hold onto their fat stores, and no matter what we throw at them, be it pharma or herbal, the body still wins out

we need a campaign to get norE back, or find new lipolytic pathways

MCT's?

What about fibrates like gemfibrazil, bezafibrate and i suppose seasamin? They have direct stimulation of PPARs especially alpha.

RoB wrote:What about fibrates like gemfibrazil, bezafibrate and i suppose seasamin? They have direct stimulation of PPARs especially alpha.

I could be wrong but my understanding of peroxisome proteins though is that they only would switch cells to fat burning if you are not already fat burning at optimal rate... they would grant benefit to someone eating lots of sugar but probably very little benefit to someone on very low carb/high fat (which surely is the first basic step if fat loss is a serious priority)?

julesm wrote:without a doubt adipo and lipo were definite timber shifters
i appreciate the comments on no substitute for exercise and diet etc, could it be construed that the same criticism could be applied to steroids insofar as, a good diet and training will reap the same rewards after a few years??

i think my whole point of the thread was that there has not been anything developed which has not been thermogenic and adrenergic in its effects.

perhaps the human body can only burn fat in the presence of these hormones (adrenaline, noradrenaline)

How about something entirely different like looking to increase leptin sensitivity? That's a possible route.

Dtlv74 wrote:
I could be wrong but my understanding of peroxisome proteins though is that they only would switch cells to fat burning if you are not already fat burning at optimal rate... they would grant benefit to someone eating lots of sugar but probably very little benefit to someone on very low carb/high fat (which surely is the first basic step if fat loss is a serious priority)?

That is true, from what i've read about the use of fibrates is that they are great for partitioning. So brilliant for preventing fat gain on a bulk or a massive cheat and maintaining muscle mass on a cut etc. But not such a good tool for rapid fat loss.

Dtlv74 wrote:How about something entirely different like looking to increase leptin sensitivity? That's a possible route.

Something like bromocriptine maybe? I remember lyle mcdonald raved about this stuff (wrote a whole book in it i think) I know it has something to do with leptin but can't remember its mechanism.

I think what needs to be done is

- focus on breaking down fats
- ensuring your body transports them effectively to the mitochondria
- to do it for the maxmimum amount of time in a day

Only thing I can think of that can do this effectively is Cycle Carb diets - moving from 3-4 days low, then one day high and then med and then low for 3-4 days.

Been reading alot of late about cyclicle carbs especially off Palumbo and Milos Sarcev and all - and I hold them in cred as they train 100's of Sports People at the top of there game and they seem to talk alot of sense.

Did you know the Wolf was on 1500g carbs lol during the end of his precontest for super sat - thats nuts! He did that for 2-3 days or something silly. But putting that aside, for mass as well as cutting - I think the feedback loop and all for all the important hormones are looked after if you follow such a diet [Cyclical Carb]

If you make sure your high carb day is on the most intensive session fo your weekly outings to the gym - you also kind of hit two birds with one stone.

^^ I'd agree with that. Seems carb cycling is a very effective way to lose body fat & gain muscle. Dr Eric Serrano talks about it a lot too.

Re transdermal application of yominbine it turns out there is something called Helios, which is effectively this with liquid clen. It works, but you can end up with an ache pock effect from where localised deposits of fat have been removed, rather than a smooth reduction.

det, i dont think any substance would be commercially available with regards to leptin signalling (sesamin yes) but on the whole i think the pharma companies would have this arena well and truly boxed off, as potentially it could pave the way for the next blockbuster (if it pans out in phase 1-4 human trials).

rob- i have used gemfibrozil before, but as you rightly put it, it is prevention of fat gain as opposed to utilising it. bromocriptine- come and gone, it promised loads, but from memory it didnt really come to fruition.

GB- i have heard of that helios stuff, i always thought it was a myth, as it is rare as rocking horse, apparently a spanish lab ROHM is knocking out something similar.

interesting stuff, and you are probably right (jules) that there's not much out there to work on leptin... is an area for future products for sure.

In terms of other things I definitely agree on carb cycling (as opposed to staying very low carb all the time) too as being the best dietary strategy. I think the increased training capactiy granted from controlled carbs allows the body to work harder and so burn fat better overall.