So what do you guys think about fasted cardio? Good or bad? Ugly?

I've never cut before but I might well need to eventually, and i've read so much conflicting info regarding if faster steady state cardio is actually any good for fat loss.

Too catabolic? Pointless?

I don't see the point in it personally and overall there's little difference. There was a good T-Nation article debunking it.

Perosnally I'd rather have some food inside me and get better performance from my cardio.

there's a thread about it already here

Read my last post

That'll be the T-Nation article

Alex wrote:I don't see the point in it personally and overall there's little difference. There was a good T-Nation article debunking it.

Perosnally I'd rather have some food inside me and get better performance from my cardio.

I read that article too, but that's one persons opinion and i've read many other people praising it.

Whoops, may as well delete this thread guys

I think as Scott's linked post mentions, total calories in vs out are what you should concern more over.

I'll happily do morning cardio but I'll make sure I've at least taken in some form of food or shake that contains protein and some carbs.

Wardie wrote:I read that article too, but that's one persons opinion and i've read many other people praising it.

welcome to the internet. Full of people thinking they know what works.

And also total cals in vs total cals out isn't the whole story.

You have to train hard with high intensity for weights sessions. IMO the DC training style is not good for that. Also, use HIIT.

It really isn't difficult to get lean (<10% BF for men) imo. People are just too fussy and lack commitment and balls to train hard enough and amend their lifestyle accordingly. Some people don't want to be that lean and that is fine. But if you do then start training smart

I don't train DC.. incase you thought I did (couldn't tell if it was directed at me or just a passing comment)

When I do cut i'll probably go for either GBC or 10x3 for fatloss.

Only cardio I ever do typically is in the bedroom or swimming every so often with the girlfriend, but that's not really doing loads of lengths etc.

HIIT does appeal though as it's intense and short.

apologies I thought you were doing DC. Looks like Full Body training right.

In my experience weight training programs that are done for hypertrophy (and leanness) require a high volume of work. Any training prog that someone uses who is using roids cannot be copied by a natural and then for them to expect the same results.

As I say, lots of sets most of the time tend to work. That doesn't mean do 12 sets of squats (although as a prog now & again that's fine) but say 12 sets of exercises in the one session that hit the quads. As well as 12 sets of ham work.

I know this is off-topic slightly, but I see no reason to stress your body negatively with fasted cardio when correct training in the gym will make a better difference.

And also what goes in your mouth is as important being "cut" is desired.

Cheers, that's all very true.

I am training full body but it's HST, which is high'ish volume and you only really go to failure or near twice every two weeks for the majority of the time.

Very good programme, probably experienced my most noticeable gains compared to anything else

HST doesn't seem high volume to me.

And being as young as you are, tbh anything done well with hard work will produce results.

Wardie - I wouldn't classify HST as a high volume routine. It's a high frequency routine but volume is pretty low.

Certainly not a good routine for getting lean in my view.....

Yeah high-volume is a little wrong, you do only really do quite a minimal number of exercises per muscle group so to speak, it is more high-frequency.

Great methods though don't you think Ollie?

High frequency, progressive overload - based on science.

I liked it a lot at the time but in retrospect I've done better on the routines I've followed since.

I think the main reason I liked it so much was that it was the first time I really sorted my diet out so the gains were bound to come. That said it's definitely a fun way to train and that's half the battle.

The one thing I don't like about it is it's potential to leave body parts lagging - if anything is lagging already, HST is probably not going to be the best thing for you

Fasting cardio
I believe that fasting cardio is very good for fat loss. Insulin is exceptionally effective at blocking lypolysis, so when one does cardio, ideally there is very little insulin banging arround. One problem with this is the it also draws down on protein in muscles and also burns it for fuel. Having a bit of protein prior to cardio can be quite effective.

Blood acidity
Slightly off topic, I also use sodium bicarbonate (1teaspoon) in water about 45min before cardio. This is to make the blood more alkaline. The reason for this is there is a thing called CPT-1 which is important in lypolysis. CPT-1 decreases dramatically when the blood gets more acidic. Its one of the cheapest supps out there and gives a lot of bang per buck.

My cardio modifiers
No insulin, some protein only, sodium bicarb, focus on deep breathing, use the whole body, stop to shake off lactate if the burn gets too strong.

JMHO,
J

Josh wrote:Fasting cardio... Having a bit of protein prior to cardio can be quite effective.

then it isn't fasted cardio.

then it isn't fasted cardio.

True.

I was trying to say that: If one does cardio in a fasted state then you dont have insulin to blunt lypolysis. If one takes a little pure protein only, the worst that will happen is a slight insulin and glucagon to balance blood glucose. I should have said that I was thinking about a little BCAA and/or EAA. Whey gives to much of an insulin spike. I know 20g of BCAA/EAA does not do much for my blood glucose.

All that aside health4ni - From what ive seen of your pics, I will take your word on what is effective in practice when it comes to fatloss.

J

Have you measured the insulin spike from BCAAs/EAAs Josh? I'd agree that it's probably the best way forward if you must perform "fasted" cardio.

I'd imagine EAA's would cause more of a spike than BCAA's due to the greater amino profile but probably splitting hairs.

yeah I'm pretty sure that BCAAs & EAAs give an insulin spike if enough is ingested. But BCAAs/EAAs/Whey/glutamine insulin spike is different from a carb induced insulin spike. With carbs the body has to deal with the glucose, and excess is pushed into fat cells. Whereas with the other ones I mentioned there is no glucose. Something like that anyway.

Have you measured the insulin spike from BCAAs/EAAs Josh? I'd agree that it's probably the best way forward if you must perform "fasted" cardio.

No I have not measured insulin from BCAA/EAA.

I have played substantually with my blood glucose and insulin in highly glycogen depleted states, during ketosis and in normal states. If I get a substantial insulin spike when highly glycogen depleted I get the shakes and sweat profusely. I get that with larger protein doses, but not with the c20g BCAA/EAA.

J

Whey is dairy and dairy along with meat sources typically register high on II so that would make perfect sense.

Alex wrote:I don't see the point in it personally and overall there's little difference. There was a good T-Nation article debunking it.

Perosnally I'd rather have some food inside me and get better performance from my cardio.

Fasted Cardio vs Non Fasted is all subjective.

Unfit fatties do better in fasted cardio as their body hasn't adapted to utilising the non fasted energy source to allow additional fat oxidation.

Low Impact Fasted Cardio will not be as catabolic as most people think. High Intensity Fasted Cardio - thats a different story.

The other level of subjectivity is if you are a BB'er on comp prep - fasted low impact cardio tends to be the only real option.

For the majority of peeps - non fasted High Intensity would be the way to go (IMHO)

ollie wrote:Certainly not a good routine for getting lean in my view.....

I would disagree with that, its a killer and would have worked wonders for me in terms of getting lean if the bloody routine didn't make me bloody hungry!! hehe