Dtlv74 wrote:To be completely honest I'm not dedicated enough to training or obsessed enough with being big to ever warrant AAI use. The most likely reason that may get me to go down that route is as i get older and if maintaining good shape becomes really difficult.

I am fascinated with it though... am with all areas of training. I don't really have any moral objections to it either, but do think many rush to AAIs too quickly before they've even learned how to train properly and eat correctly.

Exactly!

What I'm finding just lately though is I'm actually starting to show an interest in gear now. Whereas before it just didn't appeal to me at all, like to the point my mum probably knew as much as me lol! Which is ridiculous really when you consider how long I've been training and how dedicated I am (most of the time )

Now I'm showing interest and beginning to learn I think it's just a matter of time before I give it go. Not before I really know exactly what I'm doing though and am back on top of my game.

Bison wrote:The one I have heard of and seems to be the one every man and his dog is using atm is Trenbolone. This gives good gains without water?

Yes without a doubt. But Id say that was on the more advanced compounds to use and extremely androgenic [shut down i think in like 3-5 days]

or then theres methyltrienolone at like 300mcg-600mcg a day which is the most androgenic steroid in the world. 20x more powerful then Anadrol.

Anadrol I've heard of that. Isn't that like really toxic??

Bison wrote:

Dtlv74 wrote:To be completely honest I'm not dedicated enough to training or obsessed enough with being big to ever warrant AAI use. The most likely reason that may get me to go down that route is as i get older and if maintaining good shape becomes really difficult.

I am fascinated with it though... am with all areas of training. I don't really have any moral objections to it either, but do think many rush to AAIs too quickly before they've even learned how to train properly and eat correctly.

Exactly!

What I'm finding just lately though is I'm actually starting to show an interest in gear now. Whereas before it just didn't appeal to me at all, like to the point my mum probably knew as much as me lol! Which is ridiculous really when you consider how long I've been training and how dedicated I am (most of the time )

Now I'm showing interest and beginning to learn I think it's just a matter of time before I give it go. Not before I really know exactly what I'm doing though and am back on top of my game.

I can see curiosity possibly getting the better of me... maybe. One of the things i love about training and nutrition is what we learn about our body, and i've always been one to experiment with supplements. As I already said though, i wouldn't dream of trying anything just now because at the moment my training isn't consistant or dedicated enough to get the best from any kind of cycle.

If do have a go though i ani't gonna feck around - have no issues with injections (had so freakin many of them when ill with my thyroid problems) so would look to go straight to a proper course with test.

Bison wrote:Anadrol I've heard of that. Isn't that like really toxic??

Yep

Dtlv74 wrote:

Will wrote:No wonder I keep getting put off!

If I'm honest I don't think I'm brave enough to ever go down that route - although I know I'd make HUGE gains from it, it scares the shit out of me.

To be completely honest I'm not dedicated enough to training or obsessed enough with being big to ever warrant AAI use. The most likely reason that may get me to go down that route is as i get older and if maintaining good shape becomes really difficult.

I am fascinated with it though... am with all areas of training. I don't really have any moral objections to it either, but do think many rush to AAIs too quickly before they've even learned how to train properly and eat correctly.

Oh I'm the same. It's an interest and it's a sport I'm interested in learning all aspects of. I'm not that bothered about getting huge, I quite enjoy being strong though. But I just know (for some reason I have a feeling about it) that if I ever did do it properly I'd respond well to it, but it doesn't interest me other than learning about it. I have no moral issues with it either.

Will wrote:Oh I'm the same. It's an interest and it's a sport I'm interested in learning all aspects of. I'm not that bothered about getting huge, I quite enjoy being strong though. But I just know (for some reason I have a feeling about it) that if I ever did do it properly I'd respond well to it, but it doesn't interest me other than learning about it. I have no moral issues with it either.

I think your instinct is probably right - you have a good set of genetics for training (better than mine, lol) and know how to train with intensity and progression... so you probably woul do very well.

Is about what we each feel comfortable with though... and also if one is prepared to do all the carefully monitored PCT and things like that.

A big thing is though if you run a good cycle and do all your homework and really do everything to the best of your ability and explode with good gains.... all most people will see and want to think is "sted head"

Bison wrote:A big thing is though if you run a good cycle and do all your homework and really do everything to the best of your ability and explode with good gains.... all most people will see and want to think is "sted head"

It's a good point - when I hit mid 30s and if I have someone I trust and is very knowledgeable I may well dabble. But whereas I had a temptation to try epi at the end of the year I've been well and truly put off!

Dtlv74 wrote:

Will wrote:Oh I'm the same. It's an interest and it's a sport I'm interested in learning all aspects of. I'm not that bothered about getting huge, I quite enjoy being strong though. But I just know (for some reason I have a feeling about it) that if I ever did do it properly I'd respond well to it, but it doesn't interest me other than learning about it. I have no moral issues with it either.

I think your instinct is probably right - you have a good set of genetics for training (better than mine, lol) and know how to train with intensity and progression... so you probably woul do very well.

Is about what we each feel comfortable with though... and also if one is prepared to do all the carefully monitored PCT and things like that.

Agreed., and thanks.

It's a lack of knowledge for me that doesn't help, and the fact I read so much conflicting stuff.

I'm startying 5mg of dbol on waking from Saturday as I've read that it helps with bone density and will not shut me down due to very shiort half life.

I don't expect there to be much if anything in gains, but watch this space.

I'd say its 50% less gains and 50% LESS sides

i had no issue with dry joints, shutdown or acne...

Alex wrote:I didn't suffer any sides at all but got minimal gains, maybe 1-2lbs so for me it wasn't so bad.

That's about exactly the same experiences I've had.

Alex 500mg test will make all your lifts EXPLODE! lol..

simon m wrote:I'm startying 5mg of dbol on waking from Saturday as I've read that it helps with bone density and will not shut me down due to very shiort half life.

I don't expect there to be much if anything in gains, but watch this space.

It will shut you down. For certain.

I ran epi a while back and don't rate it that much at all. I gained better using creatine and NO2 products. The sex drive was insane thought That was the only good thing about it, 7 times in 36 hours with extremely powerful orgasm's and every time they got more powerful with huge loads. Good sex drug but that's it! Oh and mood was very good on it too @ 30mg pd for 5 weeks, went a bit limp for 3 weeks on pct (nolva/clomid) so my lady was probably a bit confused. Sex drive was back to normal once finished pct.

Doing a 8-10 week anavar cycle next. Very expensive though! But I've only read good things about it plus its a powerful drug for collagen synthesis so should be good for my joint pain. Might do a log on here with pics if anyone's interested?

Var is fairly underrated. Should fine strength gains kick in very quickly by all accounts and then there's the bonus of improved composition. Need to use creatine with it though.

Oggy wrote:I ran epi a while back and don't rate it that much at all. I gained better using creatine and NO2 products. The sex drive was insane thought That was the only good thing about it, 7 times in 36 hours with extremely powerful orgasm's and every time they got more powerful with huge loads. Good sex drug but that's it! Oh and mood was very good on it too @ 30mg pd for 5 weeks, went a bit limp for 3 weeks on pct (nolva/clomid) so my lady was probably a bit confused. Sex drive was back to normal once finished pct.

Doing a 8-10 week anavar cycle next. Very expensive though! But I've only read good things about it plus its a powerful drug for collagen synthesis so should be good for my joint pain. Might do a log on here with pics if anyone's interested?

Def do one mate

Creatine loading now and should have the med by monday or tuesday. Planning on starting with 60mg per day and if I'm happy on that dose I can run it for 12 weeks but may up the dose to 80mg.

My max 1 rep bench is 110kg and 100kg for 3 reps. I hope to bring that up to 120kg for 3 reps and 130k for 1 by the end of the cycle which I think is very possible from what I've read about on this med. I will be cutting on this cycle as I no longer feel the need for size, strength and lean is the name of my game now. I don't feel good being bulky with poor strength. I find adding size very easy but strength is new thing to me so its 3 reps max from now on.

be surprised if you dont get more than that - at over 80mg a day its very very powerful. But it depends on your bodyweight

What would you say would be the best way to use 250 20mg var tabs? I could run it for 7 weeks @ 100mg ed but I hear var is best to use for longer cycles.

If I can get up to 140k on the bench for one rep I'd be a happy chappy I've been going up by 5kg per week on the bench just using creatine and NO2 products but that's part cause of muscle memory. If I can run it for 12 weeks with creatine and add 5kg to my max bench per week that's 60kg! I'm liking this new way of strength training. Always worked in the 8-12 rep range.

EDIT: I'm 88.8kg @ 5'11" and 13mm on the body fat calipers.

Oggy wrote:Creatine loading now and should have the med by monday or tuesday. Planning on starting with 60mg per day and if I'm happy on that dose I can run it for 12 weeks but may up the dose to 80mg.

My max 1 rep bench is 110kg and 100kg for 3 reps. I hope to bring that up to 120kg for 3 reps and 130k for 1 by the end of the cycle which I think is very possible from what I've read about on this med. I will be cutting on this cycle as I no longer feel the need for size, strength and lean is the name of my game now. I don't feel good being bulky with poor strength. I find adding size very easy but strength is new thing to me so its 3 reps max from now on.

You should be able to get those increases easily over 12 weeks by smart programming alone.

Shorter courses are safer, so go for 6 weeks first off and I'm sure you'll hit 140kg

Rilla wrote:You should be able to get those increases easily over 12 weeks by smart programming alone.

So on var I should expect 10kg per week increase then? Haha, na 5kg per week will do.

Oggy wrote:

Rilla wrote:You should be able to get those increases easily over 12 weeks by smart programming alone.

So on var I should expect 10kg per week increase then? Haha, na 5kg per week will do.

I have no idea about the strength gains on Var and naturally they're individual. At 89kg and 5"11 I do know hat a 130kg bench isn't a very big number at all. I've personally gone from 110kg max to 130kg max in a couple of months while training 2-2½ times a week just by using simple progressive overload with a couple of twists.

simon m wrote:Shorter courses are safer, so go for 6 weeks first off and I'm sure you'll hit 140kg

Hmmm yeah, with drugs like dbol and winny as they're harsh on the liver but var is one of the safest anabolic meds for your liver and people report 0 side effects. I hear that it takes 3-4 weeks for var to kick in so 10-12 weeks may be best.