Good for Britain, bad for Britain, or in the overal scheme of things not as much of a big deal as is being made out?

Stopping Germany from taking over europe, thats out job right, the french have already rolled their yellow bellies over, the bankrupt nations have already lost the ecomic war and ready for germany asset stripping and new german rules to "help" them.

They are trying new tactics but its the same old game.

means very little mate -

What Cameron tried to do was claw back powers - it wasnt so much about the Financial Services Tax - it was about the rest of the items that the british public and key senior tory backbenches wanted. Or to be blunt what powers the Labour party had given over to the EU which every sane person wants back. He was damned if he did and damned if he didnt.

One thng is clear though - if the EU does NOT pull itself out over the financial issues in 18 months - cameron will go down in a history as a champ.

Two things I reckon will happen - EU will either semi collapse and have a limited number of members that DO have stable systems OR the EU Bank will buy vast sums of debt over 25/50/100 years and then write it off.

EU will never work unless it is corrupt at the core - what we are seeing now is the result of all of this. How in gods name can Greece, Portugal, and numerous others be in the EU is beyond me.....but they got in via fraudlent accounting which is now very clear

What it means for at least the next 2 years is that the UK has the most stable economy and currency in Europe which should mean that more businesses will be traded on the London Stock Exchange and more companies seek UK head office locations to protect themselves. Also, what isn't as well know is that the German, French and Greece banks faired worst in the recent stress test and UK banks the best.

What we as a country must now do is push on with infrastructure improvements and finally start building wave electricity generators, plus Boris Island.

We need to be brave and build a future, we can't just be a financial services hub

I can only see this as a positive outcome. The treaty was basically a contract for the UK to save the Euro given that approx. 70% of EU Financial Services as in the UK and the revenue generated by the proposed taxation would have raped us of £100's bn just to bail out the Euro. This is why nothing has still been decided as to how to tackle the problem as the other EU Countries were waiting for the UK to sign up. This is also why Sarkozy is so pissed off.

What we've effectively achieved is what the EU was set out to do in the first place - a common market place unhindered within the member countries. Not a centralised EU Government trying to decided rules and regulation based on a currency of which we don't even use.

What we should now look to do is open further trade with the Commomwealth Countries like India, who are experiencing growth as well as the the North Atlantic CANAM economies.

Like Simons post. We need to push on with being at the forefront of modern/future technology and engineering. It isnt enough to simply be a service economy.

Tidal/wave/wind/hydro etc al needs more investment to take ful advantage of its potential

I think only time will tell & he will come out of this the hero or an absolute clown. Personally I suspect the latter.

I think we probably all agree on here that the Euro was always just a political instrument used to bring more central control to the EU and nothing whatsoever to do with economics. Very much the same political game happened when the figures were fudged to allow economies like Greece, Portugal etc to join the Euro. Then on it goes with the on going attempt to keep them in the Euro. Personally I'd have let the likes of Greece go, allowing them to devalue there currency and start to rebuild. But let us not forget the Euro must NOT be allowed to fail. No matter what pain is inflicted on those countries collapsing.

Was Cameron right to veto? Well first of I do not believe it was done solely to keep the financial sector in the City. Again I believe a political game has been enacted by Cameron to appease his back benchers that are anti EU. Even Thatcher in her day never just walked away from any treaty. She had bigger balls than Cameron and came out with a negotiated settlement to benefit the UK. I feel Cameron will have done the UK much damage with our European partners due to the manner of the exit etc.

As big bad Si says what this bunch need to do is start actually governing & getting the economy on its feet by investing in new infrastructure etc. Solely having just one vision ie cut, cut, cut will not do this.

Rab wrote:Like Simons post. We need to push on with being at the forefront of modern/future technology and engineering. It isnt enough to simply be a service economy.

Tidal/wave/wind/hydro etc al needs more investment to take ful advantage of its potential

Agree totally with the above, the 'service economy' that we have become over the last thirty years is what's killing us economically - we need to become a manufacturing economy again, and this should be the focus of economic and development policy making for a long term strategy to allow this. Investment needs to go here.

As far as the veto goes, personally I think cameron was right to do as he did. I agree with ressie that a collapsing euro isn't good for britain (it would slaughter our export revenue), and we should be involved in trying to support it - but on the otherhand because we have been a high borrowing nation for so long we simply can't afford to be throwing hundreds of billions to bail out the euro, we have to rebalance our own books as a higher priority.

Problem I have with the EU is while I am pro european uniion in ideology, the actual governance of the EU is a total farce - I really want it to work, but largely in its current form it just doesn't.

Hmm the EU will never work till there is a basic and average style of living and to achieve that is near impossible. The nations are fundamentally different in how they work, the social systems, governance, revenues, exports, the list is huuuuuge.

Agree that we are better off with less integration, less binding laws and less accountability.

I would suspect that Cameron vetoe'd it not only for the Financial Services as a political gesture - but more so that IF the currency and debt crisis in the region does NOT get resolved - the exposure would have been huge. Additionally - if it did turn nasty over the next months - he would have been FORCED to give a referendum which means an automatic exit based on UK Opinions to date.

We got to understand here what the implications of the Labour government have done to the UK finances - that alone is enough for his decision. Risk - If it fails how much would we have been in debt to bail out? SIGNIFICANT. Where would that exposure have come from? BANKS. What would have happened if any then default? PUBLIC money!

As said - I think the next 18 months will determine if he had balls to do this - or has made the biggest mistake in history for the UK. But hindsight is lovely!..right here right now - he has made the best decision I reckon.

Italy for example had to pay over 6% interest for borrowing yesterday........if Germany and the rest follow......its going to be crazy..........

His focus should, and i suspect is - to getting the UK Deficit down -as long as he dont limit the cuts - which MUST happen - we are on a path to a better place in the next 2-3 years. To not cut - is crazy! In fact totally madness.

We all created this debt by putting Labour in power and then spending like mad and not taking accountability for our actions- we all now need to get out of it.

kp1512 wrote:
We all created this debt by putting Labour in power and then spending like mad and not taking accountability for our actions- we all now need to get out of it.

Is that the Royal we? Or are you actually admitting you once voted for Labour

No not royal we - I would struggle to vote labour as I fundamentally disagree with their ethos and stance [although New Labour had some good improvements but sadly used it as a cover to get elected] - although we can now confidently say, based on their actions, nor did they........

kp1512 wrote:Hmm the EU will never work till there is a basic and average style of living and to achieve that is near impossible. The nations are fundamentally different in how they work, the social systems, governance, revenues, exports, the list is huuuuuge.

This is it exactly, too many basic differences between national economies and political ideology to make it work. Noble idea, but can only function practically in a very limited sense.