32 pages but a really good read

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/s ... 845&page=6

I did think of doing that - but seriously it is worth reading as it gives such strong sides to the argument

The bottom line - Carbs have no use outside of Pre and Post and maybe low glycemic early morning carbs.

Protein and Fats are key - and can put on muscle and cut you up at the same time

During mass phases - add low GI carbs maybe in the onset of the day 100-300g and then switch to protein/fats

Pretty much the conclusions i've come to over the years of experimentation then. Even carbs around workouts are pointless when i'm sitting on my arse all day at uni, since i've been working and on the go 9 hours a day, carbs around workouts and a small amount in the morning seems to be essential. Will have a read through later though.

agree - this is why I did my little experiement over the past 9 weeks with going on carbs for upto 400g a day.

Im back to what worked - knowing that Ive tried the carb thing yet again - and it was still shite.

Only thing I think Id add - is a weekly high carb period - as the cumalative degradation of glycogen when working out can risk it not being replenished optimally - especially when working out more than 3 times a week.

Interesting to read (didn't get close to all 3 million pages though).

If the conclusion is that high carb diets are effective for bulking/mixed fat & muscle gains, but are generally unhealthy and hard to cut on... while moderate-low carb diets (based on selecting non processed carbs) are closer to optimum then i agree... if it concludes keto/zero carb diets are the way to go then i don't agree at all!

Totally depends on your life style.

If you're at a desk all day and hit the gym 3-4 days a week then sure, this approach probably works well. However if your job requires you to be fairly active and you do other active things outside of the gym like sports then you adapt accordingly.

There's no one shoe fits all whether it's training or nutrition.

health4ni wrote:

kp1512 wrote:Protein and Fats are key - and can put on muscle and cut you up at the same time

I'd agree with that.

Keto/zero carb diets are terrible imo. Not good for you at all.

Agree

DET -To quote Palumbo

Medium-High Protein, Medium Fats, Low Carbs - Optimal for Mass and Fat Loss

I think Mr Palumbo is pretty much right... although as Alex said individual differences both physiologic and in lifestyle/activity make the 'one diet fits all' approach too simplistic.

Alex wrote:Totally depends on your life style.

If you're at a desk all day and hit the gym 3-4 days a week then sure, this approach probably works well. However if your job requires you to be fairly active and you do other active things outside of the gym like sports then you adapt accordingly.

There's no one shoe fits all whether it's training or nutrition.

all boilds down to what you do and if it utilises Glycogen Alex. If it does , then you just have low gly carbs during the day

This is something I should definitely think abut.

My diet always has been very high in carbs. My diet is pretty much high carb/med-high protein/low'ish fat.

I would need to have a massive re-think about change how I eat to change it to a high protein/med fat/low carb approach and to be honest I think i'd struggle.

I'm not particularly fat or anything but to be honest i'm starting to think I should lean up a drop a good few percent body fat.

I think 10-13% bodyfat is pretty much optimum. A little subcutaneous fat (although NOT visceral fat) is actually healthy... it is not inactive tissue that just stores calories but has a regulatory effect on plasma cholesterol, many hormones and its levels seem to influence immunity. At levels above 20% or below 10% bodyfat (for a male, higher figures for a female) these things can start to go out of balance.

With medium-high carb diets generally you are pushing the insulin sensitivity risk too high for no real added performance advantage (unless really training hard and pretty much full time hours).

I think with carbs its about timing and selection and using them properly... high carb diets are always going to be unhealthy because inorder to eat high carb you have to be consuming a fair portion of energy dense/nutrient light foods. If your main carb selections are fruit and veg and all unprocessed however it's actually pretty difficult to eat too many carbs (for me this limits my intake to around 30-40% of total kcals), as these healthy selections are watery and fibrous and filling. For timing, following the simple rule of eating them around activity and avoiding them when resting allows your body to use them in a way that isn't detrimental to health but still allows adequet glycogen stores and thus performance to be maintained.

For those stuck at a desk 9-5, has anyone got any decent shouts on meals?

I used to go with chicken and rice but am going full haul and trying no processed carbs at all outside of morning or PWO. In this heat im worried about things keeping and generally things get a bit soggy when I do them cus I generally only have time to cook in the morning before work

Brown Basmati Rice is a decent non processed carb. Quinoa is also popular with a few here.

Alex wrote:Brown Basmati Rice is a decent non processed carb. Quinoa is also popular with a few here.

millet and buckwheat too.

Millet is the least allergenic of the grains so might be good for shicky in his current state.

As far a carbs go I think the most important thing is portion control. The majority have too much rice, or pasta, or bread, or potatoes without realising the amount of carbs.

I will never go very low carb again. Its pish.

Slightly veering off topic but here's a good article from Clarence Bass' website on a long term study that compared different macro split diets and controlling chronic over eating - Calories Matter

As I'm sure you've heard here before, nuts are your friend if you're stuck at your desk. I munch a small pack most days.

I can only comment on personal anecdotal evidence - I'm on a high fat, med protein, low carb diet (somedays not eating any carbs at all), and it's working fine for me.
Eggs, nuts, meat, milk, oily fish and veg (green leaf and avocados mainly).
Different people react differently, I guess.

I've never tried to "cut", admitedly, but if I do I'll probably stick with my diet and just lower the quantity.