kp1512 wrote:

ollie wrote:I think anyone can sit <10%, it's just down to how clean your diet is and your macro split. Agree that not many could hold Scott's condition though.

im sure they could mate - just look at how clean he eats and how meticulous he is.....hence the results.

Scott has genetic advantages in terms of his condition and if he ate the same as you and I his fat % would be lower, but he wouldn't every be able to pack on as much muscle.

simon m wrote:

ollie wrote:I think anyone can sit <10%, it's just down to how clean your diet is and your macro split. Agree that not many could hold Scott's condition though.

It's more difficult the older you are and I like a beer, so I don't think that I can go sub 10 without giving up those things that make life fun!

True mate, it can be done though. I'm not bothered about it all the time but when I knuckle down I can get to 8% easily enough and that's not being as strict as Scott is, and I don't think I'm genetically advantaged at all

ollie wrote:

simon m wrote:

ollie wrote:I think anyone can sit <10%, it's just down to how clean your diet is and your macro split. Agree that not many could hold Scott's condition though.

It's more difficult the older you are and I like a beer, so I don't think that I can go sub 10 without giving up those things that make life fun!

True mate, it can be done though. I'm not bothered about it all the time but when I knuckle down I can get to 8% easily enough and that's not being as strict as Scott is, and I don't think I'm genetically advantaged at all

Ollie at your age I had visble abs and drank, but age does slow down the metabolism I'm afraid, so enjoy it whilst you've got it mate.

simon m wrote:Ollie at your age I had visble abs and drank, but age does slow down the metabolism I'm afraid, so enjoy it whilst you've got it mate.

No doubt mate - you'll probably lean up nicely now that you've discovered the fountain of youth in any case

kp1512 wrote:but Scott - here is where I reckon you screw up - you dont shock the body enough to force it to put on weight. I would doubt you really are near your potential mate.....i think you just need to eat more and be sporadic in training

Indeed, that's where I screwed up for years before 2007. But 2007 & 2008 I, personally speaking, got the nutrition a bit wrong (too paleo imo). 2009 was spent getting more alkaline (to clarify, MORE alkaline, as I'm not going 100% alkaline; never have intended to). This has resulted in a slow detox over that year. In 2010 I feel I'm ready to concentrate a little more on gaining some size. BUT as you all know that will be on hold for a month or two as the little one is here. I feel as if my body is in a better state to add some more muscle.

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I think almost any male can get to sub 10% body fat. After that it's down to how much further you are committed to go. To get to very low figures AND remain there indefinitely, then yes I do think genetics play a big part. I have sat around 3-5% for the past 3yrs without any issues. I know this might annoy people but I genuinely don't think I've ever been above 10% BF (certainly not since being a teenager).

For me, when i start bulking again im going to do things very simple

300g protein
300g carbs
100g fats
another few hundred kcals of shite such as sauces, cheese, biscuits, chocolate ect...whatever the day throws in my direction
3500-4000 kcals

I aint inc the cheese in the fats as im shooting for 100g fats from a combo of the fish, meat, oils, egg yolks and fish oils

3 solid meals and 3 shakes = 50g protein & 50g carbs per meal - comfortable to achieve.

easy to work out - all thats needed is 200g of rice and 500g chicken per day...and thats the carbs and protein done. Not saying thats the every day food but just an example

Rab

Keeping it simple - the way to go

simon m wrote:Rab

Keeping it simple - the way to go

Yep. cant go wrong with 300g of protein and carbs per day...leaving space for beer and curry

The body fat levels that an individual comfortably fluctuates between I think are dependent on many factors, most of which have already been mentioned: diet, age, genetics, exercise level, consistency. For me my comfort range (the percentages within which I can manipulate my b/fat levels without much effort) is 10-13.5% according to the calipers. Below 10% I have managed but find the caloric defecit uncomfortable, and I usually struggle to eat enough to bulk beyond 13.5% - my metabolism and energy levels seem to ramp up like crazy and my appetite drops way off. Hopefully a sign of good leptin sensitivity.

Once getting to b/fat percentage lower than 10% though I'd image it's easier to hold it at that point than actually getting there.

I have never really followed a traditional bulking plan for any significant length of time and always 'lean bulked', but am now considering for the first time in my training life really doing some pure bodybuilding rather than mixed goals of fitness and physique development - hence this thread.

To summarise so far:

generally people prefer 3-4 big meals a day (plus shakes) rather than 5-8 small feeds or more

eat lots at night and first thing after waking

15-20 calories per lb

70/30 clean/junk... i can handle that (i also have a fast metabolism )

Good oils with each meal and lower fiber to help appetite.

Also like Rabs post and approach - simple to understand = easy to stick to

The fibre thing can be enhanced as it were by the last meal of the day (or pre-bed). I like 5g of psyllium husks in rice milk with grapes or blueberries etc and some nuts and protein powder. You could add more fibre of course. That will allow slower digestion at night and help move things along ready for the next day.

You need as little fibre as possible on a bulk otherwise you'll never get off the bog. Oils fill you up alot so make it hard to get the big cals in, so just enough to keep you healthy on a bulk.

^^ that's why having a high'ish fibre meal last thing is useful.

I'm not really big on bulking cycles as such although I still look to increase cals of training or rugby increases etc. I am more of a fan of Protein Cycling where you ramp up levels over a 7 day period, maintain the higher level for 7-14 days and then ramp down again for around a 7 day period. While this can be viewed as an expensive method of "bulking", it is generally a cleaner way and can help push through small plateau's without the risk of losing gains via a subsequent cutting cycle from a traditional bulk.

Regarding holding low BF I think the majority have the capability to do so but it all boils down to whether you can cope with doing this mentally. Many will find it hard to see the scales drop after working hard to increase the weight and also to see size decrease. It's a case of getting your head around the fact that weight you're losing is fat so should you be quite so proud that you're hard work has gained fat when over eating and doing nothing can get the same result?

Lifestyle and age will also play a large factor and in Simon's case I think he could sit at 10% but would have to make a few major changes to nutrition and these are difficult to do when you have a young family to consider.

Wash throwing a plan together for me thats as simple to follow as i can make it

mass gainer (50/50)

65g rice, 170g chicken (50/50) 10.30

mass gainer (50/50) 1.00

65g rice 170g chicken (50/50) 4.30

65g whey, 50g fast carbs (50/50) 7.00

65g rice 170g chicken (50/50) 8.30

whey & oils (0/50) 10.30


That's bare bones stuff for use as a basic simple to follow structure

add in beans etc and reduce rice, chance rice to sweet pots, change protein sources etc etc

fruit & veg to be inc

sauces, cheese, chocolate/biscuits and other bits and pieces of coincidental shite calories not included

Regular Beer and curry not included and are also coincidental weekly calories in my book

not bothered to state that the chicken and rice will have oils added along with the coincidental and a small amount of veg and fruit.

health4ni wrote:^^ that's why having a high'ish fibre meal last thing is useful.

aaahhhh to help mobilize the monster morning poo, good thinking.

I can bulk on 3000 calories no problem even at 95kg I'll put on weight. Bulking/adding muscle has never been a problem for me, maintaining a relatively low BF year round is very hard work for me though.