bicarbonate & carbonate salts

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bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:31 pm

Who here uses sodium bicarbonate and/or combinations of sodium/potassium bicarbonate and calcium/magnesium carbonate products?

I've been in contact with a company that I can get all four salts from in human grade quality as I am wanting to create my own blend (prob just 1:1:1:1 of each). I may have to buy a certain amount that I'll not be able to use up in say 2yrs (as an example). So I'm wondering if others would be interested?

Cost is unknown yet as I'm awaiting their quote. But as an example, pHour salts is £30 for 500g. Higher Nature's Alkaclear is ~£13 for 250g and BioCare's 90 caps cost ~£10

As I say I no costing right now, but I highly suspect (indeed hope) that 500g of all four salts (which you can only get in Phour Salts) will cost no more than £15.

Let me know, cheers
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby Rilla on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:41 pm

I've been looking at bicarbonate as a performance booster, but I guess that'd be in a totally different quantity.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:54 pm

What amount did you have in mind per dose? For performance I've seen about 10g I think.

I personally take between ~10-15g a day. Once in am on an empty stomach, once immediately after training and once before bed.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby Rilla on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:57 pm

I've seen 300mg/kg BW mentioned and that puts me at just below 30g.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:03 pm

yeah, seems 300-500mg per KG for acute loading is recommended. BUT if you don't currently use this stuff, then you'll need, imo anyway, to have a few weeks getting used to it. If you took 30g at once for the first time you will be on the toilet for a bit!

If I do get the salts in I may have to get a certain amount which might be 20kg! So, getting you 1kg+, maybe 5kg, would be helpful. You can of course simply do sodium bicarbonate on it's own, but for not much expense you'll be far better off with a combo of the salts rather than such a big sodium hit.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby Rilla on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:12 pm

Yeh?
You're the clever one, I just lift things.
It's supposed to be a good help in short burts lasting up to 7-8 minutes. As I'm planning on competing as a crossfitter, that seems like an ideal supplement.
Would I have to take it every day or could I just take some on gameday?
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby kp1512 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:27 pm

Rilla wrote:Yeh?
You're the clever one, I just lift things.
It's supposed to be a good help in short burts lasting up to 7-8 minutes. As I'm planning on competing as a shirtlifter, that seems like an ideal supplement.
Would I have to take it every day or could I just take some on gameday?


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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby Rilla on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:54 pm

I don't do shirts.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:51 pm

Yes, as a lactate buffer it's ideal. I think it would help. I'll give you some info when I have a bit more time about my suggested way to do it.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby Rilla on Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:54 pm

health4ni wrote:Yes, as a lactate buffer it's ideal. I think it would help. I'll give you some info when I have a bit more time about my suggested way to do it.


Prowler blueprint too?
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby cleaver on Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:39 pm

Phil Richards does that very blend for 24 quid for 500g.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby Alex on Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:23 pm

Definately need a mix of salts as I found I was more prone to muscle cramps after a few months of just Bicarb.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:06 am

Rilla wrote:
health4ni wrote:Yes, as a lactate buffer it's ideal. I think it would help. I'll give you some info when I have a bit more time about my suggested way to do it.


Prowler blueprint too?
Yep. But unless it's for a competition then I wouldn't think it necessary to consume ~30g of bicarb salts just for prowler training (unless you wanna beast someone else into submission lol).

cleaver wrote:Phil Richards does that very blend for 24 quid for 500g.
Yep. He also adds a lemon falvouring I think. It's the same four salts that Dr Young has in his pHour Salts. Although he states that the magnesium & calcium are bicarbonate which afaik is impossible in powder form, so they must be carbonates. Those two only exist as bicarbonates in liquid form.

Alex wrote:Definately need a mix of salts as I found I was more prone to muscle cramps after a few months of just Bicarb.
Yeah, too much sodium bicarb will unbalance the other four (and prob more) minerals. It may be the lack of calcium (and possibly the magnesium) that causes cramps in you.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby julesm on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:10 am

so how long would 500g last?

if for instance- i just wanted to neutralize some acid after a coffee and perhaps before bed, or more aptly after some red wine- what would one require.
would the capsules be enough for me to achieve this?

dont forget in one of my earlier posts on the subject (way back when) to much alkalinity is a bad thing (long term consequences)
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:15 am

well, if you use a ~5g scoop (standard/BSD small scoop) then once a day gives you 100 days. Personally, I'd do first thing in the morning and last thing at night. Or 50 days for 2 a day.

wrt too much alkalinity: I don't think you need to worry about that given the alcohol, meat and training supps.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby Rilla on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:26 am

health4ni wrote:
Rilla wrote:
health4ni wrote:Yes, as a lactate buffer it's ideal. I think it would help. I'll give you some info when I have a bit more time about my suggested way to do it.


Prowler blueprint too?
Yep. But unless it's for a competition then I wouldn't think it necessary to consume ~30g of bicarb salts just for prowler training (unless you wanna beast someone else into submission lol).


I always beast people into submission on the prowler, that's standard.
What I meant though is that you said you'd send over the prowler blueprints soonish and I figured you could look for it when you have a bit more time. ;)
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby julesm on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:31 am

keep it on topic viking!

would it not be more prudent to have my early morning shot of estrogenic coffee and then consume the salts, or would it make me alkaline enough to have the acid and still be in a alk state
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:13 pm

@Rilla: yeah I did didn't I :oops: I'll see what I can do for you...

@Jules: the point of taking the salts in the morning (pH ~8) is to decrease the acidic your body will be in. Seems pointless to then consume coffee (pH ~2-3) which will put you back into a very acidic state. As you know, a pH of 3 is 10,000 times more acidic than 7, and so requires a lot of alkaline substances to neutralise it. Is the coffee for the caffeine? If so, after a few weeks of the salts you'll not need the buzz from coffee.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby julesm on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:18 pm

force of habit mate- its a no go without caffeine, and couldnt take the risk tbh, dont need caffeine dt's aswell as alcohol ones
one step at a time scott !

could be time for an experiment then- xanthines et al to release ffa into bs, cardio, then salts to return to alk state
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:33 pm

This is what I do in the morning now... Rilla, this is what I suggest for you too:

1. First thing upon waking I drink 300-400ml of warm water with the fresh juice of 1/4-1/2 a lemon plus sole (himalayan salt in liquid solution creating a 26% saturation level... 1/4 tsp of him/celtic sea salt works fine).
2. 10mins later I drink 300-400ml of warm water with ~5g of bicarb salts.
3. 10+mins later eat breakfast. My initial "food" is 300-400ml of freshly juiced vegetables (mainly celery, kale, lemon juice, cucumber, ginger, and tiny bit of red chilli). Then 30mins later I'll have soild food which may be plant protein powder with porridge (oats or buckwheat or millet) or maybe rice puffs etc.

The mental clarity from all that is amazing... seriously. A bit of a hassle yes, esp the juicing as you must wash up after using it, but they could easily be missed, thus just the lemon juice drink and bicarb drink.

I'm not trying in any shape or form to get leaner, but I think I have from this in just a month (a month or the juicer added onto the initial drinks). Some of my trousers are too baggy on the waist now! Weight is still the same ~71kg so muscle mass is the same if not slightly more. I'm more vascular too. Traps now and legs are starting to be more evident than ever.

I think the juice has allowed me to detox even more, along with ~month of using 300-900mg of NAC a day to support this action.

Given the fact that I have lost some excess fat/toxins when I'm ~4% BF, leads me to think that simply doing this for someone that is >10% BF will see a marked change. Someone that is 15-20% will see a huge change.

Plus you very quickly get 5+ serving of veg into you before the day has even started. I can tell people the Juicer I use if that helps? I can a wee bit off the price too if you order via myself (it is expensive though at rrp £300... one of the best things I've ever bought though... even the wife takes a juice drink now as I can hide kale, spinach cabbage with carrots and pear etc).
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby kp1512 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:49 pm

^^^ that is some prep and dedication. kudos
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby Rilla on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:40 pm

A 300£ juicer? WTF!
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:27 pm

There are two main types of juicers: centrifugal and masticating. The former are cheaper and prob most popular due to their cost, but as they only slice/chop things up and "throw" them to the outside of the "cage" then leafy greens and lots of veg doesn't get juiced well, if at all. The masticating ones are the best as they "grind"/squeeze all the produce and so all veg and fruit can be done, with better juice yields. As I wanted one that can juice lots of greens then the more expensive one was the only way. It'll last for many years and in 4 weeks I've made 4 glasses a day with it (3 for me and 1 for the wife).
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby kp1512 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:56 pm

£350!!

I got the molineux one that was £50 and you get the little push bar to feed the fruit in.
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Re: bicarbonate & carbonate salts

Postby health4ni on Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:58 pm

rrp is £300. You get what you pay for mate. Trust me, this thing is the dogs.
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