Just wondering if any body has come across Barry Ross's approach to training. He talks about less being more in weight training in relation to athletic performance.
Any opinions or experiences?

Never heard of him.

Sounds like a load of poo to me lol

Although does depend on what sports etc. But most sports benefit from getting stronger with the use of weights.

It's mainly in relation to sprinting. It isn't training without weights but reducing the time spent in the gym and only focusing on priority lifts.

I am a bit unsure of the theory behind it at the moment but from what I can gather he focuses on primarily power work and ephasises recovery. For most sports where weights are used to support performance this logic may work.

Coop_de_Ville wrote:It's mainly in relation to sprinting. It isn't training without weights but reducing the time spent in the gym and only focusing on priority lifts.

I am a bit unsure of the theory behind it at the moment but from what I can gather he focuses on primarily power work and ephasises recovery. For most sports where weights are used to support performance this logic may work.

It must be explosive infrequent training in that case?...measure don set increments to be achieved in phases?

I will have to speak to the athletics coach who told me about it earlier to get more clarity on it but from what he said it does seem to be that KP. The athletes he has coached are lifting pretty decent weights for their size and weight, so from a purely anecdotal view it seems to work. However when he has sent athletes to the EIS for weight training they have lost both running form and strength.

Coop_de_Ville wrote:I will have to speak to the athletics coach who told me about it earlier to get more clarity on it but from what he said it does seem to be that KP. The athletes he has coached are lifting pretty decent weights for their size and weight, so from a purely anecdotal view it seems to work. However when he has sent athletes to the EIS for weight training they have lost both running form and strength.

If I am not mistaken this form of training is done in the States with there elite runners [100 and 200 metres] - I just havent a clue who kind of movements they do but the phases are short - like 3-5 weeks.

Yes and quite a few other runners including distance runners. I think the emphasis is on the CNS rather than muscle building. Sets are few and are run on a 5 rep or 3,2,1 style with 5 minutes rest in-between each set and very little auxiliary exercises.

Coop_de_Ville wrote:Yes and quite a few other runners including distance runners. I think the emphasis is on the CNS rather than muscle building. Sets are few and are run on a 5 rep or 3,2,1 style with 5 minutes rest in-between each set and very little auxiliary exercises.

that would make sense to me as well -

http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/LowV ... ining.html
This seems to be what i was told about, however I am not entirely sure. Will keep digging round.

Ok, too many athletes/sportspeople train too much. Full stop. Honest, it's shocking. They think it's all about so much work in the gym/track/pool that they forget to recover. Plus many eat like shit.

My swimmer imo trains far too much. But this is seemingly what all swimmers do. imo it doesn't make it right, but what can I do.

For example: I saw her at 7.25 this morning after she had been swimming for 2hrs already! Then she is swimming for prob another 2hrs this evening.

I really do think swimmers have got it wrong, BUT I also admit that I do not know much about swimming... but I know how the body works.

I think about it like this: if all swimmers trained the same (as in the amount of time in the pool [a lot!] combined with "land-training") then they are all knackered and all in the same "boat". So when they compete against each they all perform relative to each other... as in there's no amazingly fast or stupidly slow swimmers. But if someone was brave enough to change I bet they'd get far better results. imo.

Totally agree health! In the rowing it is the same. My coach makes people do ridiculous amounts of endurance session even though the average rowing race is around 6 minutes.
I can't see any advantage of training like a marathon runner in order to compete in a fairly short event. I have managed to do my training so I don't have to do his programme as I am sure I would overtrain.

It's amazing how many of the other rowers take about 3 months off every year through overtraining/overreaching but all the coaches seek out stupid excuses e.g allergies and adaptation between endurance phases.

Bear powered =

Bench, Deads, Pylos, Torture twists (Feck knows what they are!) and that's it.

cleaver wrote:Bear powered =

Bench, Deads, Pylos, Torture twists (Feck knows what they are!) and that's it.

For the actual running they use the ASR algorithm to predict how far / how fst/ how often they should do it.

http://www.asrspeed.com/learnmore.aspx

cleaver wrote:Bear powered =

Bench, Deads, Pylos, Torture twists (Feck knows what they are!) and that's it.

I agree that too often people/athletes perform too great a range of exercises. But that imo is not enough. Still, there's lots of bench (BB, DB, angles) & deadlift variations I suppose.

Sounds interesting. Do you have any experience of its success/failure Cleavey?

Coop_de_Ville wrote:Sounds interesting. Do you have any experience of its success/failure Cleavey?

His principle belief is that speed is ultimately the product of the amount of force produced during the foot contacts. That's why deadlifts are favoured because of the force that you need to generate.

His most famous client was Alyson Felix (200m silver Bejing AFAIK) not sure if he still coaches her.

It sounds quite interesting.

Coop I agree with you on the rowers. I've seen guys train till they puke then get back up and train again.

I was going to join the rowing team at uni until i found out you have to wake up at 7 every morning for a run... the thought of even getting up at 7 let alone running makes me sick.

Reminds me a bit of Fartlek. Cross-country running training just used to be long distance running, followed by some long distance running, then finished off with some long distance running.

Then, in the 1930s when the Swedes developed this (shorter training sessions, with periods of high intensity faster-than-race pace), they blew everyone else out of the water.

I'm no expert, but shorter periods of resistance training should play at least some part in any athlete's schedule.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is basically Fartlek training

Coop_de_Ville wrote:I can't see any advantage of training like a marathon runner in order to compete in a fairly short event.

Totally agree with that - That's just crazy - You don't get 800/1500m runners training like marathon runners - It's all speed work, hill work - Short stuff 1/2/3 minute speed work - Ok we used to do long runs at the weekend - 10 - 15 miles at most - But it was at a very easy pace, included purely to work on pure aerobic capacity - easy pace so no anaerobic kick in and only once a week - maybe a 7/8 miler mid week at same pace - but not every day.

Also I know swimmers who train like crazy (my daughter's friends eg) a couple of hours in teh morning and again in the evening day in day out - And then they do a 400m race - poetntially (I am guessing here) 4 -6 minutes sprint at their age - How does swimming for 2 hours benefit that? Weird - H4Ni has a point methinks on the effect a change in training might have.

health4ni wrote:Ok, too many athletes/sportspeople train too much. Full stop. Honest, it's shocking. They think it's all about so much work in the gym/track/pool that they forget to recover. Plus many eat like shit.

My swimmer imo trains far too much. But this is seemingly what all swimmers do. imo it doesn't make it right, but what can I do.

For example: I saw her at 7.25 this morning after she had been swimming for 2hrs already! Then she is swimming for prob another 2hrs this evening.

I really do think swimmers have got it wrong, BUT I also admit that I do not know much about swimming... but I know how the body works.

I think about it like this: if all swimmers trained the same (as in the amount of time in the pool [a lot!] combined with "land-training") then they are all knackered and all in the same "boat". So when they compete against each they all perform relative to each other... as in there's no amazingly fast or stupidly slow swimmers. But if someone was brave enough to change I bet they'd get far better results. imo.

Sorry, to go backwards guys but have only just noticed this.

I must wholeheartedly agree with Scott here. I used to do that kind of training when I was younger and competing - it was seen as the way to go and I guess it still is. I swam 6 days a week, often twice a day. Last open water season, I swam much less and competed much better. OK, admittedly, there is a huge difference in the type of swimming and the level of competition, but I push myself as hard regardless of whether it is a County swim or an open water swim for me.

You certainly need to get the balance right. I'm not swimming enough at the moment because of the very very poor coaching/club situation I have here, but I know even if I was training more it would be nowhere near that amount! Plus, you have to be careful because swimmers are especially prone to shoulder problems (i.e. tendonitis/impingement) like I got last year (mine was more down to pushing it too hard to fast, not because of the amount I swam).

Obviously it does depend on the distances you are due to be competing at - I have never understood why swimmers who do 200m, 400m races need to put in so many miles.

For example, in the open water swimming. Take the 10.5 mile Windermere swim. The ideal training (consensus between people who have successfully done this for years and years and done massive swims, longer than the Channel etc, and who don't subscribe to the traditional swimmer overkill) is to make sure you have one or two 6 mile swims under your belt in the season (4 months), and a few shorter ones, perhaps 3 miles - 5 miles or so. The rest of the training is 2-3 times a week in the lake, aiming for 1-3 miles at a time. You can supplement with a couple of indoor training sessions a week if you want (45 mins a time) but you don't need to do more than that.

If I had my time over again, I would most definitely be one of the "brave" ones and try the less is more approach.

less really is MORE!