RoB wrote:Aside from food being the obvious choice, what non-stim Appetite supressants are there on the market? If this cut is going to be successful I'm going to be in serious need of some and eph just isn't working for some reason.

Craig wrote:Isn't there something called hoodia that lowers appitite?

Where did you get your eth from?

Karlos wrote:Appetite suppressant? Sack calorie restricting. Eat more good food if you're hungry. Don't mean to be a sexist preacher, but calorie restriction is for girrrls! (not the GB type - the treadmill skinny fat type!)

It's all about macronutrient control and good food choices.

GymBunny wrote:I'll tell you what, MT2 has utterly destroyed my appetite. To the extent I threw away 1/2 my breakfast this morning because I had no interest.

I'm really enjoying the fact that dieting is not hard anymore, because I have lost interest in things like cake, fruit and basically sugar. Got loads of energy. Only thing I don't like is the fact it's put me off tea...but as I was trying to remove milk from my diet it's not that bad.

Rilla wrote:Psyllum husk powder?

Karlos wrote:What bf% are you now, what you looking to get to?

Why don't you think veg is important? I think many people here will vouch for the positive effects of veg on body composition.

I'm only trying to argue this point because I've had great results recently simply by eating a good amount of fat, veg and protein and busting my arse in the gym 3 times a week, with no hunger at all to battle with.

I've tried cal restriction in the past (more than once) and failed due to hunger getting the best of me.

Appetite surpressents...eat a bag of frozen broccoli?

RoB wrote:I certainly do think its important, but not to the degree of eating 10 portions a day lol.

Sounds like a great idea to me

unfortuantly i've got a pretty high set point and a ridiculously adaptive metabolism.

Karlos wrote:Isn't that a good reason to not go down the calorie restriction route? Maybe a carbo cycling approach would work better?

Karlos wrote:

RoB wrote:I certainly do think its important, but not to the degree of eating 10 portions a day lol.

Sounds like a great idea to me

unfortuantly i've got a pretty high set point and a ridiculously adaptive metabolism.

Isn't that a good reason to not go down the calorie restriction route? Maybe a carbo cycling approach would work better?

Dtlv74 wrote:I think i (and anyone else who reacts like this) must have really good leptin responsiveness because i can't do big calorie changes either up or down... if i try to bulk and raise my calories i get so fidgety and energetic that i find it hard to sit still or even sleep properly... but if i drop my kcals i just feel like i want to sleep all the time. The weird thing is that my maintenance calories are roughly around 2,500 daily and it only takes a shift up or down by a few hundred kcals sustained for a day or two for me to experience either of the above.

For me when i want to drop bodyfat i have a couple of lower carb days each week but at the same time have to keep kcals the same or even raise them slightly and do extra cardio - if i restrict calories then i quickly become lethargic, apathetic and sleepy.

Am lucky i'm fairly lean naturally and happy with my normal bodyfat level (around 11-12%). If I had to go on a major cut where it looked like I'd have to give a sustained go at kcal restriction i think I'd go insane!

RoB wrote:

Dtlv74 wrote:I think i (and anyone else who reacts like this) must have really good leptin responsiveness because i can't do big calorie changes either up or down... if i try to bulk and raise my calories i get so fidgety and energetic that i find it hard to sit still or even sleep properly... but if i drop my kcals i just feel like i want to sleep all the time. The weird thing is that my maintenance calories are roughly around 2,500 daily and it only takes a shift up or down by a few hundred kcals sustained for a day or two for me to experience either of the above.

For me when i want to drop bodyfat i have a couple of lower carb days each week but at the same time have to keep kcals the same or even raise them slightly and do extra cardio - if i restrict calories then i quickly become lethargic, apathetic and sleepy.

Am lucky i'm fairly lean naturally and happy with my normal bodyfat level (around 11-12%). If I had to go on a major cut where it looked like I'd have to give a sustained go at kcal restriction i think I'd go insane!

You lucky bugger... i wish there was a pill that reduces the bodys BF set point by 5 percent. I have been looking into ways of lowering the bodyfat set point and did come across this paper which argues that the set point is regulated by flavor-calorie associations. Like an inbuilt Pavlovian response to the fluctuation of food availability with the seasons. From an evolutionary perspective, flavoursome food would be more abundant in the summer (fruits, honey etc) which would signal the body to lay down the fat for winter. Haven't had time to read though all the research or paper yet so could be getting the wrong end of the stick... looks interesting though.

http://sethroberts.net/about/whatmakesfoodfattening.pdf

Increased ATP content/production in the hypothalamus may be a signal for energy-sensing of satiety: studies of the anorectic mechanism of a plant steroidal glycoside.

MacLean DB, Luo LG.

Division of Endocrinology, Hallett Center for Diabetes and Endocrinology, Brown Medical School, Coro Building Providence, RI 02903, USA. david_b_maclean@brown.edu

A steroidal glycoside with anorectic activity in animals, termed P57AS3 (P57), was isolated from Hoodia gordonii and found to have homologies to the steroidal core of cardiac glycosides. Intracerebroventricular (i.c.v.) injections of the purified P57AS3 demonstrated that the compound has a likely central (CNS) mechanism of action. There is no evidence of P57AS3 binding to or altering activity of known receptors or proteins, including Na/K-ATPase, the putative target of cardiac glycosides. The studies demonstrated that the compound increases the content of ATP by 50-150% in hypothalamic neurons. In addition, third ventricle (i.c.v.) administration of P57, which reduces subsequent 24-h food intake by 40-60%, also increases ATP content in hypothalamic slice punches removed at 24 h following the i.c.v. injections. In related studies, in pair fed rats fed a low calorie diet for 4 days, the content of ATP in the hypothalami of control i.c.v. injected animals fell by 30-50%, which was blocked by i.c.v. injections of P57AS3. With growing evidence of metabolic or nutrient-sensing by the hypothalamus, ATP may be a common currency of energy sensing, which in turn may trigger the appropriate neural, endocrine and appetitive responses as similar to other fundamental hypothalamic homeostatic centers for temperature and osmolarity.

original

RoB wrote:

Dtlv74 wrote:I think i (and anyone else who reacts like this) must have really good leptin responsiveness because i can't do big calorie changes either up or down... if i try to bulk and raise my calories i get so fidgety and energetic that i find it hard to sit still or even sleep properly... but if i drop my kcals i just feel like i want to sleep all the time. The weird thing is that my maintenance calories are roughly around 2,500 daily and it only takes a shift up or down by a few hundred kcals sustained for a day or two for me to experience either of the above.

For me when i want to drop bodyfat i have a couple of lower carb days each week but at the same time have to keep kcals the same or even raise them slightly and do extra cardio - if i restrict calories then i quickly become lethargic, apathetic and sleepy.

Am lucky i'm fairly lean naturally and happy with my normal bodyfat level (around 11-12%). If I had to go on a major cut where it looked like I'd have to give a sustained go at kcal restriction i think I'd go insane!

You lucky bugger... i wish there was a pill that reduces the bodys BF set point by 5 percent. I have been looking into ways of lowering the bodyfat set point and did come across this paper which argues that the set point is regulated by flavor-calorie associations. Like an inbuilt Pavlovian response to the fluctuation of food availability with the seasons. From an evolutionary perspective, flavoursome food would be more abundant in the summer (fruits, honey etc) which would signal the body to lay down the fat for winter. Haven't had time to read though all the research or paper yet so could be getting the wrong end of the stick... looks interesting though.

http://sethroberts.net/about/whatmakesfoodfattening.pdf

health4ni wrote:One of the most nutrient dense and filling dinners I've had recently is fried courgette &/or broccoli with quinoa and blended chick peas. Add some chilli/cayenne pepper & herbs for some extra flavour & punch, then drizzle on some olive oil and you're good to go.

health4ni wrote:
One of the most nutrient dense and filling dinners I've had recently is fried courgette &/or broccoli with quinoa and blended chick peas. Add some chilli/cayenne pepper & herbs for some extra flavour & punch, then drizzle on some olive oil and you're good to go.

ollie wrote:Chick peas are amazingly filling.

Another good one:

Grate some lemon zest and mix with a few tbsp of olive oil. Brush onto a cod fillet. Grill.

Fry up some sliced onions and garlic in coconut oil, and at the last minute throw in some spinach, chilli and your freshly cooked chick peas (the ones you buy dried are best, they need soaking overnight).

Dump that lot on a plate, sit the cod and top. Done. Fresh ingredients, simply prepared